Hmm... How about the Department of Defense along with nearly every single federal law enforcement agency, who used actual real world shootings along with ballistic testing to come to their conclusions.
Originally Posted by mrwonderful
...I know your source as there is only one group who preaches what you say, and that is the Marshall, Sanow duo.
P.S. Not to mention that the catastrophic failure of those lightweight 9mm rounds was the major factor in the F.B.I.'s decision to get rid of the 9mm... FWIW.
Well, I don't know why you are arguing with me about the performance of the 147gr 9mm bullets:
Massad Ayoob on Glock Talk Standard 9mm loads vs +p, +p+ - Glock Talk
Join Date: Jul 2007
Standard 9mm loads vs +p, +p+
Hi Mas, thanks, great to have you around.
I have a G19, plus Kel-tec (P11 and PF9) for backup/pocket carry. The Kel-tecs are not recommended for the higher powered loads.
To eliminate the problem of potentially mixing up the various types of 9mm ammo while loading/unloading the weapons, I run standard 9mm in my G19 also. One ammo, no problems keeping track.
What are your thoughts on this? Am I making a reasonable choice here, are normal (HST) loads sufficient self defense rounds? I'll admit I'm more of a shot placement fan than caliber guy.
Not sure if I'm looking for information or affirmation here, I suppose that depends on whether you agree with my choices...
02-26-2011, 15:08 #2
Join Date: Nov 2005
In a 9mm not built to handle +P or +P+, I'd be inclined to fall back on standard pressure loads that have proven themselves in the field: the 115 grain Federal JHP product code 9BP from their Classic line, or the 147 grain subsonic Federal HST or Winchester Ranger-T at standard pressure.
If you use the Federal 115 grain 9BP, you'll easily be able to tell it apart from, say, 127 grain Winchester +P+, even by feel as well as by sight. Since they take separate magazines and you'll be filling the magazines during "administrative handling" in a calm environment, getting one load mixed up with the other is not something I'd consider likely.
Your call, of course.
I never said word one about 147 JHP's. In fact 147gr. JHP HST is one of my favs. All I ever said was real results in actual shootings are preferred by me instead of lab testing. Mas Ayoob is one of my many sources. He has considerable knowledge and has access to many reports of how ammuntion performs in actual shootings.
"Every manufacturer claims their product is the best. Any of the major brands should, in their premium lines, have excellent quality control. That company's 9mm 115 grain JHP using the Sierra bullet loaded to 1350 fps nominal velocity has been used in more shootings than any of their other products, last I knew, and has performed extremely well. FWIW, I personally favor the middleweight JHP bullets at 1250 nominal velocity in a 9mm, specifically the Winchester Ranger-T 127 grain +P+ and the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P. A very close second, again IMO, is the 115 grain JHP at 1300-1350 fps. The Federal 9BPLE +P+, the Winchester +P+, and the aforementioned Cor-Bon +P all have substantial and excellent track records in the field."
Ammo question - Glock Talk
same here.and it's cheaper to practice.
Originally Posted by mrwonderful
Not the question and lame.
Originally Posted by wi44hunter
Winchester Ranger T 147 gr.
147 +P is coming more available.
I'd go with that in a major brand: Corbon, Winchester Ranger, Federal HST, etc.
I will be posting a series of videos on my youtube channel this summer regarding balistics. I will be doing more than just the typical "shoot into water jugs" testing.
I will be testing in the following situations:
shooting JHP through car doors and into balstic media
shooting JHP through Pylwood and into balstic media
shooting JHP through Drywall and into balstic media
shooting JHP through car windows and into balstic media
If you want your round tested feel free to post message me and we can work something out. I don't have the means to buy all the common hand gun rounds on the market to test them. I have the means to test every round except the .357sig.
I would love to test some Gold Dots, Hornady Critical Duty/Critical Defense, Federal, Winchester, Etc. Post message me. for more details or suggestions.
Federal HST 147gr standard pressure 9mm has done well in 3 separate tests by tnoutdoors9. Here's the latest one:
Federal HST 9mm 147 gr JHP SIM-test w/Denim - YouTube
Personally , I do not things that the bullets weight makes a huge difference in a caliber range. The bullet itself does. The consistent good ones I find in documented tests, reports and verifiable sources are the Federal HST, The Talon ( this includes the flavors ranger, PDX etc) and Gold Dot. The Remington Golden Sabre not often used it seems when it has been performs well. I carry the 127 Winchester ranger load currently. When it is cold weather time and more often than not people are in thick jackets I go to a 45 ACP with 230 HST
Originally Posted by asin9ne
I agree. I was just referring to the the article in the OP that says not to use anything above 125gr in 9mm.
I like light & fast ammo -just like my chicken!
Here's a video of Corbons 115+P JHP (excellent street record) tenderizing some chicken!
Cor-Bon 115gr 9mm JHP +P - Ammo test - YouTube
I shoot Double Tap ammo in all my carry guns due to the higher velocity, consistency, and excellent accuracy.......now that they're loading GDHPs again, I've replaced most of my ammo with their GDHP loads. 124 gr +p GDHPs at 1300+/- fps is an awesome load, but they're a little pricey compared to the same bullet from Speer at 1220 fps for about half the cost of DT. For carry loads, I don't worry about the cost but if you plan to shoot your carry loads often and cost is an issue, the Speer loads are Awesome Loads, as well.
Have you tried Underwood Ammo? Its reliable & cheaper then Doubletap & they use Gold Dot ammo.
Originally Posted by TXOutfitter
Here's their link- http://www.underwoodammo.com/9mmluge...boxof50-2.aspx
Home > Pistol Ammunition > 9mm Luger > 9mm Luger +P+ 124 Grain Gold Dot Jacket Hollow Point Box of 50
It seems like the article was cut and pasted... some of it is very up-to-date, some of it uses data that's about 10 years old.