12ga Defensive Ammo Recommendations (OVER PENETRATION SERIOUS CONCERN)

This is a discussion on 12ga Defensive Ammo Recommendations (OVER PENETRATION SERIOUS CONCERN) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by paul34 The copper (or nickel if we're talking about Fiocchi) plated buckshot is usually found in low-recoil loadings... it helps to enhance ...

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Thread: 12ga Defensive Ammo Recommendations (OVER PENETRATION SERIOUS CONCERN)

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    The copper (or nickel if we're talking about Fiocchi) plated buckshot is usually found in low-recoil loadings... it helps to enhance penetration in order to offset the lighter charge.
    Not always. It is also used in Federal's Vital Shock hunting ammo too. These are full power loads. Some are even magnum rated, with velocities as high as 1,325 fps.

    Same thing is true with Winchester's Supreme Buckshot product. Those all use copper plated Buckshot, and nearly all of them are full power loads.

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  3. #47
    New Member Array kdmoore's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm back with an observation from this weekend that may or may not be interesting for birdshot proponents.

    I'll be the first to admit this is a non human encounter, little farther out than HD and with a pretty small pellet ... but it HONESTLY SHOCKED ME.

    A friend has a summer home that co hosts groundhogs, much to their dismay. I've been out (when they aren't there) and killed them in the past. I shoot them from within their house, and also walk the half acre yard too. I take a .223 (overkill) and a 12ga. I use the 12 when walking as I don't want the .223 bouncing up, the house shots are from the upstairs windows with good stopping backstops. Nearest neighbors are half mile away and I avoid those angles at all costs.

    The 12ga has always seemed to be overkill. I passed on a 50 yard shot last time out, as I had field loads with mod choke. This last trip I grabbed a full choke tube, but couldn't find my can of turkey loads, so I grabbed high brass 7.5 shot loads. As I was driving there I thought, "I'll just skip the long range shotgun shots" I've shot them from within 10 yards with light field loads and mod choke to devastating/messy results.

    I ended up with a shot at an adult gh who was standing next to a tunnel entrance, later paced it out to 16 yards. I never hesitated, didn't even try to get closer. It tumbled over backwards and convulsed while on it's back. BTW, I assume the tumble was muscles spasms and NOT the sheer power of the hit. I was a little surprised it wasn't dead on the spot. I took a step closer to finish it and to my surprise it righted itself. I shot it again as it headed to the hole. I expected to find it dead near the entrance of the tunnel, but it was gone! I actually thought my previous post I had written. I looked at the spread of the two shots (they had skimmed the ground) and they were 5 inches wide.

    I know there's a lot that isn't the same here, but:
    Please reconsider birdshot. Ground hogs are not THAT tough (one of my friends son's killed a baby one with a weak pellet gun). I'm 100% sure I hit the first time HARD in head/upper chest, second time was a snap shot but I guarantee I hit to some degree but likely on back/hind quarter. It's alive today because I didn't use a heavier shot (same distance) or because I shot from too far away (same shell/choke). I honestly thought the 1 1/4 ounces of 7.5 leaving at 1340 fps would have all been academic, not anemic, for groundhogs.

    Birdshot is VERY sensitive to distance, air scrubs energy off small lighter pellets very rapidly!

    If you must, get the largest/hardest shot you can find going as fast as it can and shoot as closely as you can!

    But some of the plated buckshot loads mentioned above seem the right way to go!

  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Well, but not all birdshot is equal. One cannot compare 7 1/2 shot to #2 Birdshot, for example. #2 Birdshot is 3.9 times heavier than 7 1/2 shot. And BB Birdshot is over 7 times heavier than 7 1/2 shot. I'm doubtful that anyone has ever recommended using #7 1/2 birdshot.

    Groundhogs are also quite notorious for simply not dying if they are hit in the rear part of their body. The level of damage done often makes no difference. If you want to drop them where they stand reliably, you need to hit them in the head or heart/lung area. So if the shot was placed in the groundhog's guts, even hitting him there with the .223 will not guarantee a quick death.

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