9MM SD Ammo

This is a discussion on 9MM SD Ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by snakyjake When reading the ballistics it [Hornady Critical Defense] appears to be a low energy round. When in an apartment or very ...

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 77
Like Tree22Likes

Thread: 9MM SD Ammo

  1. #46
    Member Array whodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    When reading the ballistics it [Hornady Critical Defense] appears to be a low energy round.
    When in an apartment or very thin walls, you may want a lower energy round???

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Member Array snakyjake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    W
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by whodog View Post
    When in an apartment or very thin walls, you may want a lower energy round???
    I don't know, but I'll guess. I would try and choose a round that is more versatile for the situations that I think I may encounter. If I chose a round optimized for an apartment, then the round might be less optimized for walking to my car when I think I'll need protection the most. So think about that trade-off.

    It's the same for a round for going through windshields, sheet metal, or hard barriers. For me, I just don't see those situations happening for me, therefore I don't pay much attention to those ballistic tests. For me, I pay attention to heavy clothing.

    But keep in mind, the ballistics data just looks good on paper. We're talking small holes and small differences between loads and calibers.

    I wish I knew more why these lighter rounds are being introduced and what problem they are trying to solve. I can only guess by the type of markets and advertisement trends I've been seeing in the magazines.

    Jake

  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,354
    I will be going with the Winchester Ranger 147gr T-series HP in my Kel-tec PF-9.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  5. #49
    Member Array Hollowp84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15
    147 HST ;^) ...or 124+p...Cant go wrong.

  6. #50
    Member Array Hollowp84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15
    Not my video, but for what its worth, Look at the "Expansion Results"..Just Mean Looking

    YouTube - AT1 - 9mm Luger - Federal HST 147 Gr JHP

  7. #51
    Member Array snakyjake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    W
    Posts
    122
    Something else to consider besides bullet expansion and penetration is both the permanent and temporary wound cavity. The theory is a faster bullet produces a shock wave and creates a larger cavity that the bullet diameter.

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    Something else to consider besides bullet expansion and penetration is both the permanent and temporary wound cavity. The theory is a faster bullet produces a shock wave and creates a larger cavity that the bullet diameter.
    Yes, that's known as hydrostatic shock, but you'd require much more than 1200 fps and 400 ft-lbs of energy to cause a measurable difference. The "larger" cavity you've mentioned is microscopic at best, if it even exists. These "shock waves" may cause a larger temporary cavity (once again measured microscopically), but it would last for a fractions of seconds, and the permanent cavity would be exactly the same as the bullet caliber. If you want to create a larger cavity than the bullet diameter, I'd suggest carrying a .454 Casaull or .500 S&W or a big game rifle; the average handgun caliber does not have near the amount the velocity or energy required to cause a permanent cavity larger than the bullet diameter, or we would have heard about it by now, and this debate would have ended long ago.
    MikeNice likes this.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  9. #53
    Member Array Hollowp84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    Yes, that's known as hydrostatic shock, but you'd require much more than 1200 fps and 400 ft-lbs of energy to cause a measurable difference. The "larger" cavity you've mentioned is microscopic at best, if it even exists. These "shock waves" may cause a larger temporary cavity (once again measured microscopically), but it would last for a fractions of seconds, and the permanent cavity would be exactly the same as the bullet caliber.
    Very true, No Handgun is capable of doing such. Given that yes, being shot with a pellet gun is going to make your body "Shocked" but the amount of time that lasts if it even does at all is very short.Its like being hit in the face, Your body has a Recover Period, But between then unless trained, You will be Dazed & then you will spring back into action. No 9mm-45acp round will knock you down on your ass, Neither round is powerful enough nor packs enough weight. Unless vitals are hit- Then they Might "Stop" in their tracks, which can be accomplished with a .380 FMJ if placed in the right spot. Expansion helps increase the wound cavity size and Damage Surrounding Organs as the rounds are designed to Expand upon impact. If you want someone to drop in 1 Blow, Use a Baseball Bat. If you want them to do a Backflip- Use a 12 Gauge...Thats when you might see some Hydrostatic shock...Not from any common pistol caliber. I Would Use the Caliber at hand and Take Advantage of whats out there. Some rounds are very similar, some are completely different, Some cost $2.00 a Round (Corbon DPX), Some Cost .50 Cents a Round (HST) Its all in what you can afford enough of to know it works, feeds reliable in your handgun,& You can shoot Accurately. I wouldnt worry about if the Attacker witnessed any Hydrostatic Shock as they wont be complaining about much but after being hit with any 9mm,.40,.45acp Round.

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by alachner View Post
    Yes, you can probably find someone who can sell it to you legally. Nonetheless, this could be a problem if you have to use it for self-defense and have to prove it in court. The lawyers could claim that you used ammo that was intended for "law enforcement only" and get you in trouble. I would just use a type of ammo that is used by law enforcement, but that on the box it does not state "Law Enforcement Only". Just a precaution!
    The LE designation is a manufactures labeling choice. It has no legal status at all. Contrary to some internet rumors I know of no instance where any manufacture stopped supplying a dealer because they sold LE ammo to the general public.

    According to Massad Ayoob whom I believe is the worlds foremost self defense expert to response to that lame attack would be to say. That you opted to use that ammunition because if the police use it to defend me and my family it should be good enough for me to defend myself and my family with. That said IMO Federal HST is far superior to Rangers based upon the tests I did and every credible comparison I have ever read. An aside Massad Ayoob also agrees with that conclusion as a result of tests he did on wild pigs
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  11. #55
    Member Array whodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    278
    Ayoob tested on pigs???? Who got the bacon?

  12. #56
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    According to Massad Ayoob whom I believe is the worlds foremost self defense expert to response to that lame attack would be to say. That you opted to use that ammunition because if the police use it to defend me and my family it should be good enough for me to defend myself and my family with. That said IMO Federal HST is far superior to Rangers based upon the tests I did and every credible comparison I have ever read. An aside Massad Ayoob also agrees with that conclusion as a result of tests he did on wild pigs
    Did Ayoob state which weights he preferred? I remember reading him in an old article where he said 115gr +P+ was the greatest SD round, but we know today that that load is hit and miss at best.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  13. #57
    Member Array whodog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    278
    Yeah, where to get his newer stuff???? All I have is the older article from Ayoob....

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by whodog View Post
    Yeah, where to get his newer stuff???? All I have is the older article from Ayoob....
    I don't think Ayoob has talked much about SD ammunition since siding with Marshall and Sanow. (I wouldn't either, considering).

    Basically, they said that any 9mm round above 125gr was worthless. The favored round of the trio was pretty much anything at 115gr +P and then the later +P+. You'd think if this 115gr +P+ load was as good as they said it was and any round above 125gr was worthless that at least one federal, state or local LEA would issue it, yet no one does. Sure, the Cor-Bon DPX load in 115gr +P is being issued, but that bullet is in a class of it's own due to being an all copper bullet and tests similar to a 147gr bullet. Some agencies issue 124gr +P which is a fine load, but the majority of LEAs issue the heaviest bullet in each caliber, with good reason.

    P.S. You'd think Federal and Winchester would be producing 115gr +P and/or +P+ loads in their premium duty lines if it was all its cracked up to be! (HST and Ranger-T, respectively)
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  15. #59
    Member Array mrwonderful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    I don't think Ayoob has talked much about SD ammunition since siding with Marshall and Sanow. (I wouldn't either, considering).

    Basically, they said that any 9mm round above 125gr was worthless. The favored round of the trio was pretty much anything at 115gr +P and then the later +P+. You'd think if this 115gr +P+ load was as good as they said it was and any round above 125gr was worthless that at least one federal, state or local LEA would issue it, yet no one does. Sure, the Cor-Bon DPX load in 115gr +P is being issued, but that bullet is in a class of it's own due to being an all copper bullet and tests similar to a 147gr bullet. Some agencies issue 124gr +P which is a fine load, but the majority of LEAs issue the heaviest bullet in each caliber, with good reason.

    P.S. You'd think Federal and Winchester would be producing 115gr +P and/or +P+ loads in their premium duty lines if it was all its cracked up to be! (HST and Ranger-T, respectively)
    Mas is very active. Here is a recent one:
    #1
    TSA
    USAF Vet




    Join Date: Jun 2010
    Location: Seattle, WA
    Posts: 5,460 Ammo question

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Mas,

    You always have good insight and I really enjoy reading topics in this forum. I have recently seen a lot more Corbon 125, 115, 90 100 (Power Ball) all in +p more and more in stores and guns shows and Corbon claims their Thunder Ranch T Ammo is "the best shooting ammunition in the industry".

    Dakota Ammo

    What is your opinion/thoughts of their ammo and with all the brands out there what is your personal feeling on the best 9mm for self defense?

    Thanks
    T

    Every manufacturer claims their product is the best. Any of the major brands should, in their premium lines, have excellent quality control. That company's 9mm 115 grain JHP using the Sierra bullet loaded to 1350 fps nominal velocity has been used in more shootings than any of their other products, last I knew, and has performed extremely well.

    FWIW, I personally favor the middleweight JHP bullets at 1250 nominal velocity in a 9mm, specifically the Winchester Ranger-T 127 grain +P+ and the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P. A very close second, again IMO, is the 115 grain JHP at 1300-1350 fps. The Federal 9BPLE +P+, the Winchester +P+, and the aforementioned Cor-Bon +P all have substantial and excellent track records in the field.

    best,
    Mas
    Ammo question - Glock Talk
    “Our lives come from God. So does our right to defend them”
    There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by whodog View Post
    Ayoob tested on pigs???? Who got the bacon?
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    Did Ayoob state which weights he preferred? I remember reading him in an old article where he said 115gr +P+ was the greatest SD round, but we know today that that load is hit and miss at best.
    It was a podcast from their radio show awhile back as I recall They dropped a charging boar like a sack of potatoes with HST Mas was very impressed by what he saw when they butchered it. I am on the way out the door right now. Have some rabid zombie cans that need to be stopped, but if you like I'll post the link when I get back
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

9mm ammo

,

9mm sd ammo

,
ammo for lc9
,
best 9mm ammo for lc9
,

best 9mm ammo for ruger lc9

,

best 9mm sd ammo

,
best 9mm sd round
,

best ammo for lc9

,

best ammo for ruger lc9

,
best ammo lc9
,
best lc9 ammo
,
lc9 best ammo
Click on a term to search for related topics.