.357 SIG vs .357 Mag vs .40 S&W

This is a discussion on .357 SIG vs .357 Mag vs .40 S&W within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you compare penetration and expansion between the major calibers in gello (which is not people) you'll find very similiar results. But the facklerites refuse ...

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 23 of 23
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: .357 SIG vs .357 Mag vs .40 S&W

  1. #16
    Member Array mrwonderful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    96
    If you compare penetration and expansion between the major calibers in gello (which is not people) you'll find very similiar results. But the facklerites refuse to acknowledge other effects that can't be easily measured. Hydrostatic shock and velocity. Oh heresy they say! Well velocity kills, it's a fact Roy Weatherby knew and proved this. The refrain will be pistols don't go fast enough for it to be a factor. Real world results disagree. When you approach and exceed 1400fps it has a major effect on the body. A good podcast by Mas Ayoob and friends discuss the sig here: 055 “We’re Getting the Band Back Together” to discuss the .357SIG cartridge « The ProArms Podcast

    From Ammo Lab testing: "He has tested several thousand rounds of the usual 9, 40, 45, etc. When he tested the 357 Sig Winchester Ranger and Remington Golden Saber ammo, it did something only the 10mm Silvertip has been able to do. Both of these rounds cracked the top plate that holds the gelatin blocks in place during testing. It’s obvious that these 357 Sig rounds dump more energy into 12 – 14 inches of gelatin than most other rounds he has tested.
    When he reinforced the top plates, the same two 357 Sig rounds mentioned above then cracked the lower plate. The best 9mm loads, such as the Ranger 127gr +P+ barely created a ripple in the gelatin in comparison."

    Texas DPS troopers love the .357 Sig because it has produced the highest fatality rate of violent criminals, much better than anything else they have ever been issued ( including the .45). The 357 Sig has operated at 100% for every single shooting so far.

    According to the annual shooting review board files, the 357 Sig is working at 99% for the Delaware State Police, which uses .357 Sig Speer GD ammo.

    He also had an opportunity to review the USSS shooting files. They use the Ranger 125 grain load and report it’s the most effective pistol cartridge the USSS has ever been issued.

    You can't disregard the effects of velocity just because it's effects are not easily measured or fit your preconceived notions about stopping power. Real world results don't lie.
    oneshot and red13 like this.
    “Our lives come from God. So does our right to defend them”
    There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    ...So you want to tell me that the 100 fps difference between the 9mm 127gr +P+ Ranger-T and the .357 SIG 125gr Ranger-T (1250 fps to 1350 fps with a lighter bullet) makes enough difference to cause one shot stops EVERY SINGLE TIME? That's BS and you know it. That would mean that all bullets depend on velocity to kill someone which they obviously do not. And for the thousandth time, there is NO SUCH THING as "stopping power," at least when discussing common caliber handguns.

    I'd love to see these so called "100%" fatality rates, as there is no way they exist. Not even a .44 magnum can claim 100% fatalities, and it is a MUCH better round than the .357 SIG. Sure, the .357 SIG is a good round, but claiming that it has 100% fatality rates when used is BS to the "infinite" degree.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  4. #18
    VIP Member
    Array gunthorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    home office
    Posts
    2,355
    Seems like if he's dead, he's 100% dead. I've shot it in a Sig, and it was a piece of cake. I don't know how the G33 would feel, but if I get something, that's what it would be. The hi caps ought to fit, too. Out of a short bbl you might have to wear sunglasses...at night. I'll check the link to the reduced velocities in shorter bbls, thanks.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    there is no such thing as a guaranteed 1 shot kill from any handgun or bullet, can you get a 1 shot kill? of course it is possible all it takes is good shot placement and some luck.
    however for every one shot kill story you can come up with, I can come up with stories of multiple shots resulting in not stopping or killing.
    the reality is that it all comes down to shot placement, then caliber then luck

  6. #20
    Member Array mrwonderful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    96
    Whoa! Relax. This is a friendly discussion or so I thought. Didn't mean to shatter your world view and cause apoplexy. 1.) I didn't claim the cartridge caused 100% fatility rates, don't know where you got that. I suggest you re-read the post. I said for those departments, THEY reported higher fatality rates and it has worked FOR THEM 99 to 100%. Which I took to mean it stopped the threat not that it killed 100% of the time. Nor did I claim all bullets depend on velocity to kill. 2.) A 2 gr. difference in bullet weight makes no difference. There are more loadings out there than the one you cherry picked. The 9mm ranger T load only makes that velocity in the longest barrels. The average difference between 9mm and 357 sig is more like 150 to 200 fps and yes it does make a difference.

    Nor am I or have bad mouthed the 9mm. My EDC is a glock 26 loaded with the ranger T 127gr. +P+. Not because of velocity but because in REAL WORLD SHOOTINGS it has an outstanding record of stopping threats. Of course shot placement always rules the day. My home defense gun is a Sig P250 357 sig with 4" barrel. It's powerful, accurate and works for me. YMMV.
    oneshot likes this.
    “Our lives come from God. So does our right to defend them”
    There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by mrwonderful View Post
    Whoa! Relax. This is a friendly discussion or so I thought. Didn't mean to shatter your world view and cause apoplexy. 1.) I didn't claim the cartridge caused 100% fatility rates, don't know where you got that. I suggest you re-read the post. I said for those departments, THEY reported higher fatality rates and it has worked FOR THEM 99 to 100%. Which I took to mean it stopped the threat not that it killed 100% of the time. Nor did I claim all bullets depend on velocity to kill. 2.) A 2 gr. difference in bullet weight makes no difference. There are more loadings out there than the one you cherry picked. The 9mm ranger T load only makes that velocity in the longest barrels. The average difference between 9mm and 357 sig is more like 150 to 200 fps and yes it does make a difference.

    Nor am I or have bad mouthed the 9mm. My EDC is a glock 26 loaded with the ranger T 127gr. +P+. Not because of velocity but because in REAL WORLD SHOOTINGS it has an outstanding record of stopping threats. Of course shot placement always rules the day. My home defense gun is a Sig P250 357 sig with 4" barrel. It's powerful, accurate and works for me. YMMV.
    I am in no way angry, and I apologize that my post made it seem that I was; I was simply expressing my reaction to what you had said. (Lol at "shattering" my world view. My choice in ammunition has nothing to do with my world view, so that's a bit extreme).

    The Ranger-T 127 +P+ "makes that velocity" (~1250 fps) in 4" barrels, and it's been tested multiple times.

    Yes, the difference between your average 124gr 9mm and average 125gr .357 SIG is more like 150 to 200 fps.

    You said, "When you approach and exceed 1400 fps it has a major effect on the body." ...Albert Einstein once said, "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" I say this because you claim so much with anecdotal evidence like the few shootings by highway patrolmen in Texas and shootings in a state the size of my fingernail. You claim Weatherby proved it, but I haven't seen this proof, either. You keep saying these things as many have before you, but the actual experts have actual evidence on this subject.

    I'd love to see these "real world shootings" you love to mention. That's like me saying .40 S&W 180gr is the best round ever because it works in real world shootings according to some police officers in the Phoenix Police Department. It's amazing how you can use one source and claim it as reliable evidence.

    P.S. I "cherry picked" the 127gr Ranger-T +P+ because it's the most similar to a .357 SIG round in the 9mm realm.
    Last edited by AZ Hawk; May 23rd, 2011 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Grammar...
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  8. #22
    Member Array Aaron1100us's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    318
    I have a question for Glock owners. I thought you weren't supposed to shoot +p or +p+ in a Glock?

  9. #23
    Senior Member
    Array Blue Thunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    In the Gun Room
    Posts
    917
    I shoot +P 9MM rounds all day in my Twin Glock G-19's, there are no other rounds that I have seen that are +P+ in other calibers. 357Sig is hard to find range ammo and EDC ammo for. I gave my brother a 40S&W barrel for his Sig 357 pistol so he could shoot it when he wanted to instead of trying to find ammo for it.
    I have a Colt Python 6 inch barrel wheel gun that I will take always ahead of any 357Sig gun. Yes 6 rounds placed where they need to be is better than spray and pray with the other.
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
    NRA Endowment Life
    There are NO Silver Medals for Street Combat
    Blue Thunder

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

.357 sig vs .357 mag
,

.357 sig vs .40

,

.357 sig vs .40 s&w

,
.357 vs .40
,
.40 vs .357 sig
,
357 mag vs 357 sig
,
357 sig vs 357 mag
,

357 sig vs 40

,

357 sig vs 40 s&w

,
357 vs 40
,
40 s&w vs 357 sig
,
40 vs 357 sig
Click on a term to search for related topics.