This is a discussion on Frag ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Extreme Shock, Magsafe, Glaser. They have impressive gel tests (sometimes), most look like they would have a hard time getting deep enough to hit a ...
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Extreme Shock, Magsafe, Glaser.
They have impressive gel tests (sometimes), most look like they would have a hard time getting deep enough to hit a major artery though.
Lets try not to turn this into a negative thread, I'm just curious if anybody even carries this stuff.
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The only time I've used it was in a Sig Sauer facility that required it. Other than that I don't carry them.
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Sig requires lead free frangible practice ammo - that's ball ammo which breaks up on contact with steel. If you use it on people, it acts like ball ammo.Originally Posted by highvoltage
Magsafe & Glaser are nothing like that - they are designed to get dramatic, explosive expansion on people.
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I have Glasers in .45ACP and .357mag. I don't carry them right now; I need more magazines before I load them into one. I don't want to load-unload(range)-reload...(and so on, and so forth). They're too expensive to ruin by loading and unloading them like that.
"Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"
"Gun control means hitting your target every time."
Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.
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They don't meet DOJ minimums.
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition
I prefer the tried and true JHP.
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."
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When I first started carrying I did, but dropped them after some research for JHP or JSP.
I know not what this "overkill" means.
Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.
I have carried the GLASER before in 45ACP but, I never shot anybody with it.
They were the very first Glaser Safety Slugs though & they fed just fine but, featured a flat blue composite nose to seal the core.
I believe that the original GLASERS had the internal shot compressed in liquid Teflon.
I never cut one open though.
It was nicknamed "The Surgeons Nightmare" back then.
I've not carried any Safety Slugs in years now.
The water jug tests and pretty much most other typical testing materials tell you not much.
I saw actual photographs (way back when) ~ when it was independently tested on live and also dead pig carcasses & its performance on those subjects was pretty impressive.
That was back when some folks tested bullet effectiveness on live pigs across the border in Mexico.
Pigs don't wear Winter clothes and heavy leather jackets though so I'm not sure how effective it would be when used defensively in all scenarios on humans.
It IS very ricochet resistant though & I did test that myself.
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I've got some Glaser Silver in .38 special.
Used one to take out a raccoon. Nailed it like a hammer and caused a fatal bleedout that took a few seconds, no over-penetration.
But that was a raccoon.
I'd like to try Extreme Shock's EPR, I like the idea of a solid core that breaks up rather than a compressed core of shot (Glaser/Magsafe).
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I used to keep my 357 House Gun loaded with Magsafe until I had a guy trying to get through my front door one night. The whole ordeal lasted about 5 minutes and I was thinking the whole time, I hope this crap works. If he had actually made it through the door, I could have told you first hand how well it works but thank God he didn't. After that incident, I went to hollow points because I know they work and never looked back. It was my lesson learned to stick with proven ammo and not buy into the hype, just for the piece of mind alone.
There was a thread recently where a guy mentioned that when he put his hand over his 380, he was wishing it was a 45. I completely understood how he felt. It's all good in principle until you need it.
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Interesting, thanks. Didn't know that. I'd never heard of frangible ammo until I took the Sig course.
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in my "house" gun, the 1st 2 are glaser 9mm or Aguila IQ in 40, after that, its DPX or gold dots..
as long as you now the limitations of the ammo "limited penetration" and have dont use a whole mag full, it can work quite well.. just like dear hunting with 55gr Vmax 223
side hit to the chest will liquefy the internals, but dont try a quartering shot..
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I'm a surgeon, and I've seen 1 (one) frangible ammo hit in a human (Miami).
The patient was shot in the neck, at less than 14 inches, I believe by a short barrel 38 special revolver.
The patient was quadriplegic (immediately following the shot).
I don't know the brand of ammo. The pellets contained by the jacket were approx. number 8 lead shot.
My attendings were surprised that I knew what it was because they didn't (the cops confirmed frangible ammo).
The patient was stealing a car, and dragging the owner along for the ride as he held on to the car. I don't know exactly how the car owner managed to get off the shot.
Very messy wound. No recovery from the spinal cord injury. There were 3 or 4 pellets within the spinal canal that passed through the spinal cord.
G.
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I dunno how anyone can afford to carry Glasers... what with how they come in six-packs for about $15....
Hakkaa päälle!
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