This is a discussion on Hornady Critical Defense .45 ACP within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Spidey2011 I'm not recoil sensitive either, though so YMMV. Nor am I, my 1911 has very low recoil anyways IMO. But from ...
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Nor am I, my 1911 has very low recoil anyways IMO. But from what I read (and I forget where) Hornady chose this weight to increase velocity (aiding in consistent expansion) and lower recoil. Just wondering if it really did and what a "real world" test shows. May try em anyways.Originally Posted by Spidey2011
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AWESOME!! I have Hornady Critical Defense ammunition loaded in all my guns as well. I've been dying to do some milk jug test with it, as well as some other ammo, both high quality and lower cost to see the difference in expansion of the rounds.I like the HCD, and carry them. Here are a .45 and a 9mm I shot this past weekend. Both were shot at 5yds, out of a Glock30 and Glock19 in to milk jugs filled with water. The .45 went through 3 jugs and was in the 4th, the 9mm was found in the 3rd jug. .45 max size was .82 and the 9mm .60
I need to shoot some more and see, I thought they expanded too fast and cut penetration.
Shot one of those .45 critical defence rnds in to a 75 oz plastic Finish dishwasher detergent bottle full of water today. I am convinced they expand too quickly, the bullet entered the bottle at POA, made a hole as expected, and then punched or rather broke through the back not a hole but a 3 section rip in the plastic. Most bullets that expand well, at least make a noticeable jagged hole with the rips in the plastic radiating from that hole.
To me, it would seem like what that particular bullet was designed for is doing exactly what it is supposed to when you shot it into a plastic bottle filled with water. I'm not a ballistics expert but they claim that it's designed to go through various materials like clothes, etc. with minimal expansion until it hits something with the mass of something like ballistics gel. Water would be fairly close.
I guess I'm not getting your point of being "too soon." Unless by that one means that it's expanding before it's hitting the water.
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Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.
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I'd conjure he means it's expanding too rapidly, which will lead to underpenetration.To me, it would seem like what that particular bullet was designed for is doing exactly what it is supposed to when you shot it into a plastic bottle filled with water. I'm not a ballistics expert but they claim that it's designed to go through various materials like clothes, etc. with minimal expansion until it hits something with the mass of something like ballistics gel. Water would be fairly close.
I guess I'm not getting your point of being "too soon." Unless by that one means that it's expanding before it's hitting the water.
Which, considering the HCD is designed to do exactly that (underpenetrate), you're right--it's performing as it was designed.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
I tried the ammo again, this time with a gal water jug with a rug wrapped around the jug. The results were much better this time. But, I think I use Hornady TAP.
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I collect ammo, not guns.
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Tried a box in my Kimber Ultra Carry II and barley got 7 rounds out. Every round would not feed, wouldn't leave the mag, never made it to the feed ramp. Tried 3 different magazines to. All worked great with other ammo, hollow points too. The Critical Defense ammo did work well in my Springfield XD .45 though.
I have found out too that HCD's aren't made for a Kimber's steep feed ramp. They hate the rubber tips on those things. I bought a box to try them out once. I got them home, loaded up a mag, pulled back and it stayed open just like I locked it. I cleared it once and tried it again with the same results. So without thinking twice about it, I gave them to my brother who has a full size .45. I never even tried to shoot any. I've shot many other types of HPs and ball without a single issue, including my reloads. My wife carries them in her SP-101 though. They work just fine.
Mine is a Kimber Ultra CDP II
Last edited by mprp; August 20th, 2011 at 01:09 AM. Reason: Added which Kimber I was refering to.
Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME
Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.
To all out there, the issue with Critical Defense ammo and hard primers IS NOT over. if you check for a thread I started about a month ago, I had several FTF's with 38spl+P Critical Defense. Several ended up being 12 out of 25 in one box and 9 out of 25 in the second. When I contacted Hornady to see if they wanted the boxes back to examine, the CS tech I spoke to first said they definitely wanted to examine them, especially when I gave him the lot numbers and they turned out to be current production and only about 3 months old. He told me someone would be in contact with me later that day.
A manager called me back to confirm the lot numbers and told me there was no need for them to spend the money to have them shipped back, because they knew it (hard primers) was an ongoing issue. I asked if Hornady had ever taken a public stance on this issue. He said sure, we'll never admit it.
"Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston
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1911's are meant and designed to fire 230gr full power ammo. The 185gr hornady is just too light IMO.
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im calling bs. I've loaded 200 gr lswc on top of 4.2 gr bullseye, with a problem. Lighter recoil by 15-25% and zero ftl, ftf, or fte. IMO the key is holding the gun with strong hands as you squeeze the trigger.
oh, and my pistola is a Kimber cdp pro
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Actuallly, the .45acp round was originally 200gr, not 230.
And the problem with HCD having feed issues is not the weight, it's the fact that Hornady put a freakin' rubber brake pad in the nose.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
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I had the same thing happen with my ultra cdp II when dropping the slide on the first round. The rounds never stopped feeding when I was actually firing a magazine and letting the pistol do it's thing, but sometimes that break pad on the nose stopped the first round dead. All i had to do was tap the magazine and it would feed properly. I ended up filing down the rubber tips and now i don't have that problem, also the top round of my reload mag is a speer gold-dot now.
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