This is a discussion on .380 Ammo Tested: Round Two + Velocities within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The guy on TN Outdoors youtube channel just tested the 102gr GS and got no expansion and an average of about 900fps with a bersa ...
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The guy on TN Outdoors youtube channel just tested the 102gr GS and got no expansion and an average of about 900fps with a bersa .380. His test was into 4 layers of denim and then ballistic gel. Interesting to see your results. Thanks for posting.
EDIT: just thought of something, why don't people test through a layer of cotton and a layer of rayon (common shirt material) rather than 4 layers of denim? I mean, have you ever seen a guy wear 4 jean jackets?
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It's a general representation of a heavily clothed individual...instead of testing against, say, a Carhartt jacket over a sweatshirt and T-shirt, or a heavy leather jacket over flannel...etc.Originally Posted by smolck
But if it makes you feel better, consider if you had to punch through an arm, and then therough the pocket of a jean jacket...that's 4 layers.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
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Yep, literally my only conclusion after doing these tests and other afternoon time wasting tests is that the .380 simply does not expand all that reliably, as you saw with the GS which only expanded twice out of five shots through denim. I will say though that the GS is probably one of the better options out there simply because of it's beefyness. It's only a little behind the other popular HP's in fps, but a good 12gr's heavier in weight.
As Cuda66 said the four layers of denim just seems to be the standard. It would be interesting to see if there really WAS a big difference in reliability of expansion when only shooting through say...two layers of cotton.
"Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker
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And that's the whole point. SD ammo should perform consistently and reliably. If it doesn't, then all you're doing is operating under the illusion of safety. Anecdotal evidence of .45 ACP rounds not stopping a criminal are just that - anecdotal. The fact is that service calibers perform more consistently and reliably than non-service calibers.
Someone stated so well over in another thread that certain ammo will perform well under the right circumstances, but do you really want to trust your life to "the right circumstances"?
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I'm waiting to hear if I can use +P ammo in my Sig P238 .380? I read the manual completely and it does not mention. However I called Sig and they said all their pistols can use +P ammo. The way he answered me kind of made me feel like he was just trying to brush me off. I will email them and also call again Tommorrow and speak with another rep to see what they say. Anyone have this p238 pistol that had shot +P ammo?
I have yet to be attacked by a block of ballistic gelatin but.........
Your P238 will handle the +p stuff just fine. The P238 uses the locking breach and not a blow back design. I use the Buffalo Bore 100gr +p stuff in mine and have not had any problems with it, or the gun. While at the range I run standard pressure target FMJs, but for defense it's the +p stuff all the way.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
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When you say locking breech what is the difference between that and standard I guess? Also does buffalo bore make +p .380 HP?
I have yet to be attacked by a block of ballistic gelatin but.........
This Wikipedia explanation will do it more justice than I can... But here's a link to the page for the complete write-up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_pistol
Actions: blowback versus locked breech
Main articles: Blowback (arms) and Recoil operation
Self-loading automatic pistols can be divided into "blowback" and "locked breech" categories according to their principle of operation. The blowback operating principle is suitable for smaller, low-powered calibres, such as 7.65mm Browning(also known as .32 ACP), and 9mm Browning Short (also known as .380 ACP) as the resistance of the recoil spring and mass of the slide are sufficient to retard the opening of the breech until the projectile has left the barrel, and breech pressure has dropped to a safe level. For more powerful calibres such as the 9x19mm Parabellum and .45 ACP, some form of locked breech is needed to retard breech opening, as an unlocked blowback pistol in these calibres requires a very heavy slide and stiff spring, making them bulky, heavy and difficult to operate. A somewhat commercially successful blowback pistol design in the more powerful calibres was produced; the Spanish Astra 400 in 9mm Largo and the similar Astra 600 in 9x19mm Parabellum. U.S. manufacturer Hi-Point also produces a line of blowback operated pistols in several calibers including 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP. Virtually all other service-caliber pistols are locked breech designs
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
Check this site out for the scoop on the BB ammo...Buffalo Bore site. It's all I run in most of my defense guns... Kinda dirty stuff, but it adds some kick to the .380 and makes it a low end 9mm, or at a minimum equal to a standard pressure .38 special. JMO though.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
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Thanks for posting. This is why I carried Buffalo Bore 100 gr hardcast +P.
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