I wanted to tell everyone...

This is a discussion on I wanted to tell everyone... within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I had my .380 out to the range yesterday. It is entertaining in its own way and hits may be registered with it but it ...

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  1. #76
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    I had my .380 out to the range yesterday. It is entertaining in its own way and hits may be registered with it but it is no gun that I'd choose to gunfight with. It is the one handgun I have around here that gives me the chills when I think of being stuck using it for self-defense. That's why I strive to leave it behind or carry it as an occasional back up rather than depend on it daily.

    It is too ridiculously easy to do better than carry the .380 pistol in my view.
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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Wow, did I really miss this entire thread. Although it really doesn't look like anything has been settled.

    Sometimes it is hard to understand what happens when bullets are propelled out the end of a gun barrel. Those who have spent time behind a reloading bench and "toyed" with load developement might have an easier time understanding what happens. Case inspection can definately tell you a lot. Long before any signs show up on the weapon. Well that is unless you double charge a load or do something else really stupid, then you only get to inspect the pieces of the gun.

    With the variables of case/primer/powder/OAL of round (or space left in case or lack of space/type and weight of lead and even the crimp that is put on the finished product, minor changes in any of those things along with the gun it is shot out of can effect the ballistic and pressure characteristics of any particular round.

    Do the paid technicians at the ammo factories have great jobs. You bet they do, because they get to do what I consider fun and get paid for it. That is why in the past decade or so there have been vast improvements in ballistics of some ammo. The .380 being one of them, but that was driven from peoples desire to carry a small effective semi auto gun. So the manufacturers did the smart thing and started to make more effective ammo for a gun that has been around for a century.

    By the way. SAAMI which keeps getting refered to as the authority is simply an entity that is made up of the manufacturers of guns, ammo, powder, some of the same people who are being refered to. Yes, I realize that many already know that but it appears a few may not be aware of exactly who this SAAMI fellow is.

    However like GMan has suggested some of the other calibers, namely large revolvers have suffered over their history. When I was looking for a hunting handgun, I considered the 454 but ended up with a 44 mag. Why, because after I researched through load manuals etc. I realized that for what I am going to do with it, if my Redhawk with serious 44 mag loads won't kill it, I don't need to be shooting it. Now are these loads fun to shoot for an entire day? Heck no. My wrists simply can't handle more than a box or so of them, besides what is the point. But, the brass is just fine and the handgun shows no ill effects. NOTE: Everything is done within stated safe ranges based on various load manuals and close inspection is done while loading and to the brass afterwards.

    Since I don't have all the equipment like the ammo manufacturers have to check pressures etc. I have to rely on what is published and my inspection of brass/primers/primer pockets etc. When working up loads. When the brass starts showing pressure signs, I know I have to back it up a bit because even though I am might be withing the safe load ranges for the book, whatever my equipment and components are putting out is on the verge of unsafe.

    Now that I have gone completely off on a tangent, what do I really think. Can the .380 be an effective round? Yes. Is it really as effective as a 9, 40, 45, or even a .38 or .357. Nope, but it certainly is going to be more effective than a .22 if you choose the right ammo/gun combo and the shooter does his/her part.

    Before anyone gets too upset about putting the .380 behind a .38, well consider that if I choose to carry .38 ammo it would either be +P in a 642, or SP101 or if I got real creative it would be my own loads out of a .38 case in the SP101 that would not meet the acclaimed SAAMI specs I fear.

    Carry what you want, make sure it functions well with a proven ammo type, and practice. Beyond that it really is just simply personal prefence and we will never agree totally on that. Heck even the "experts" don't agree how are us lowly forum folks supposed to.

    Yea, I do have a .380 and carry it on occasion, and the wife carries it on occasion. No it isn't my 1st choice, but that is me.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  4. #78
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    Another typical .380 love/hate thread.

  5. #79
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    How's this for a twist.... A .38 special, 9mm, and .357 are just .380's on escalated levels of steroids...



    Carry on....
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

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  6. #80
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    How's this for a twist.... A .38 special, 9mm, and .357 are just .380's on escalated levels of steroids...



    Carry on....
    Yea but those few .001 in diameter make explosive differences when they impact. They become magically destructive.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  7. #81
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    380 Pressure

    I may be mistaken, but I believe that the SAAMI specs for the 380 were made around a straight blowback / fixed barrel design, which while being very accurate can only handle a certain amount of pressure. Nowadays many 380's are locked breech, which can handle more pressure.

    Anybody have more details on that?
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  8. #82
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Wow, did I really miss this entire thread. Although it really doesn't look like anything has been settled.
    Boy howdy ain't that the truth.

    And the truth be known, it probably never will be settled. There's just to many self proclaimed experts out there that love to pound their chest and and armchair most any and everything.
    It's like Thunder71 stated; "Another typical .380 love/hate thread." and that's probably the most accurate description of these types of threads out there. Either you love it or you hate it, which in itself is fine, but it's the hating and interjection of inaccurate information being passed off as facts that leads to nowhere and ruins it for the lot.

    In a perfect world, if you don't like the conversation or it's content, one should abstain and seek out other areas of interest. I for one am glad DC has some very knowledgeable individuals that both have insight and hands on experience of the subjects that they talk about.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

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  9. #83
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    I for one enjoy the different perspectives the members bring into a conversation.

    It seems like no matter how many times I discuss the same things with folks ( who know how to engage in a civil debate), I learn something, or at least walk away having seen a different perspective.

    I have no dog in the race, really, and will always prefer bigger heavier projectiles, but I do sometimes like to relax and carry small. But I do enjoy the conversation.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yeah, I know whatcha mean GM10mm. I seldom carry my PPK because I'm really into my revolvers as of late. Even with all my other options in the safe I still find that I tend to carry outa comfort as apposed to caliber. Some folks tout the statement "It's not supposed to comfortable, it's supposed to comfort". That to me is laughable... And that's not meant in a condescending way, it's just IMO, What's good for one will not be good for all, and every shooter will find what works best for them in their own time; that's just a fact.

    Like yourself I continue to learn and broaden my understanding of both Concealed carry as well as the different firearms available and their pluses and minuses, and that's why IMO, DC is such a valuable resource for anyone interested in CC. Heck, it was DC that took me from a strictly Auto loader guy to a Revolver enthusiast, and I'm happier than a pig in pooh for it.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

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  11. #85
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    It is too ridiculously easy to do better than carry the .380 pistol in my view.
    While I respect your opinion, I have just not found that to be the case, though I spent much time, effort, and money to try and make it so.

    My social, dress, and work considerations are such that I need to be very discreet. I found that the only two viable methods for me are the Smartcarry and pocket carry.

    I used the Smartcarry daily to carry one of my Glocks for over 3 years. It went from comfortable, to noticeable, to uncomfortable, to irritating, to downright painful. Having he backstrap of the pistol pushing into the same spot while driving for three years just stopped being do-able. I know - a gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. Baloney.

    I tried (again) a PM9 for pocket duty, and it is just too heavy and too large. When you put it in a pocket holster (and I tried several) it poofs the pocket out to the point that someone behind me could see it in my pocket. That, to me, is just unacceptable.

    So, I carry two LCPs. My wife carries one. Same manual of arms, same spare mags. Works for us.

    ETA - I tried revolvers, too. With my big thighs, they just print too much in my pockets. The smaller and flatter .380 pistol just works better for me.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  12. #86
    Ex Member Array Bombsaway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    I had my .380 out to the range yesterday. It is entertaining in its own way and hits may be registered with it but it is no gun that I'd choose to gunfight with. It is the one handgun I have around here that gives me the chills when I think of being stuck using it for self-defense. That's why I strive to leave it behind or carry it as an occasional back up rather than depend on it daily.

    It is too ridiculously easy to do better than carry the .380 pistol in my view.
    And when you factor in cost and availability of ammo, it just doesn't make any sense to carry one.

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    While I respect your opinion, I have just not found that to be the case, though I spent much time, effort, and money to try and make it so.

    My social, dress, and work considerations are such that I need to be very discreet. I found that the only two viable methods for me are the Smartcarry and pocket carry.

    I used the Smartcarry daily to carry one of my Glocks for over 3 years. It went from comfortable, to noticeable, to uncomfortable, to irritating, to downright painful. Having he backstrap of the pistol pushing into the same spot while driving for three years just stopped being do-able. I know - a gun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. Baloney.

    I tried (again) a PM9 for pocket duty, and it is just too heavy and too large. When you put it in a pocket holster (and I tried several) it poofs the pocket out to the point that someone behind me could see it in my pocket. That, to me, is just unacceptable.

    So, I carry two LCPs. My wife carries one. Same manual of arms, same spare mags. Works for us.

    ETA - I tried revolvers, too. With my big thighs, they just print too much in my pockets. The smaller and flatter .380 pistol just works better for me.
    I've had the same trouble pocket carrying my Keltec PF-9's. The cheapie little holster seems to print much less that the Desantis Nemesis. I ususally just pocket carry one in the right front pants pocket, but here is a pick carrying both in very small jeans pockets. They conceal much better in dress pants, Dockers or cargo pants/shorts. PF-9's are only 12 oz unloaded and just a tad lighter than the PM9/CM9.



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  14. #88
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I use pocket holsters with an anti-print panel, so they print like a wallet. When I try the kind of holsters you pictured, you can clearly see the grip printing. Like I said, I've got big thighs...which push the gun towards the outside of the fabric.

    The PF9 is lighter than the PM9, but slightly larger. For me, the PM9 is already pushing the limit.

    But thanks for the suggestion anyway!
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  15. #89
    Member Array Zeke2A's Avatar
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    I used to have and carry a PPK/s stainless. I loved that gun. I sold it several years ago. I never felt undergunned when carrying it. I have just as of late become a revolver affecionado and have found I am accurate and more comfortable with my wheelguns.

    70% of the time that I carry now I pocket carry ( for reasons similar to 10thmtn) when I pocket carry I now carry a .38 Ruger LCR 80% of that time and the other 20% a Beretta Tomcat .32ACP ( when I need to be even more discrete ) I don't even want to start the .32 debate I have no illusions about the caliber ...but it beats a pointed stick....
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  16. #90
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    I've had the same trouble pocket carrying my Keltec PF-9's. The cheapie little holster seems to print much less that the Desantis Nemesis. I ususally just pocket carry one in the right front pants pocket, but here is a pick carrying both in very small jeans pockets. They conceal much better in dress pants, Dockers or cargo pants/shorts. PF-9's are only 12 oz unloaded and just a tad lighter than the PM9/CM9.

    I have had no luck with the Desantis Nemesis either, it's more expensive, it doesn't fit as will as my Blackhawk, and the bottom is open to lint and other debris.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

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