why not to carry FMJ's

This is a discussion on why not to carry FMJ's within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I suspect he means Speer Personal Protection Ammunition. Speer Ammo - Ballistics Tables...

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Thread: why not to carry FMJ's

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I suspect he means Speer Personal Protection Ammunition.

    Speer Ammo - Ballistics Tables
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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  3. #32
    Member Array CountShotula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I suspect he means Speer Personal Protection Ammunition.

    Speer Ammo - Ballistics Tables
    Ah, I hear the words "personal protection ammunition" all the time so can never quite tell what brand exactly.
    Any ammunition can be used as such.

  4. #33
    Ex Member Array ZappBranigan's Avatar
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    Buddy I completely agree, if you fill someone full of holes a third of inch wide I think they are going to stop bothering you and seek immediate medical attention if they are still alive, I don't care how weak people say the .380 is.

    I carry a 9mm and keep it loaded with FMJ because I WON'T PAY 30+ bucks for a box of SuPaR poW3rFull JHP A-Bomb bullets that the manufacturer says is the one you want.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie313 View Post
    I carry FMJs in my 380. Ill take my chances with FMJ having a better chance of stopping a threat over HP through clothing and what not. Also, if my life is in danger and I need to shoot, my life is more valuable to me, than someone behind the BG. sorry
    Tell that to the father who finds his 6 year old daughter will a hole in her head after your shot goes through the BG's chest and exits out his back 50 yards up the street. Hopefully you'll never have to know how foolish bravado can land you in jail for manslaughter. If you are concerned about "under-pentration" and feel you need to resort to FMJ's, then switch guns.

    Seriously, if any of you deliberately err on the side of over-penetration you are being irresponsible at best.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    OK, everyone take a deep breath - no need to start calling people names over this.

    Here is some gel testing done with a P3at. As you can see, FMJ gets 16-17 inches, while the FBI calls for 12-15. Hardly seems like .380 FMJ is going to massively over-penetrate.

    GoldenLoki.com

    In this case, the pistol (a Bersa) had a slightly longer barrel. What was probably a greater factor is where in the body was the guy shot. A shot to an extremity is going to be different than a COM shot.

    In any case, the use of FMJ ammo in .380 is clearly not irresponsible, especially with some of the smaller .380s out there with their shorter barrels.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  7. #36
    Member Array CountShotula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Tell that to the father who finds his 6 year old daughter will a hole in her head after your shot goes through the BG's chest and exits out his back 50 yards up the street. Hopefully you'll never have to know how foolish bravado can land you in jail for manslaughter. If you are concerned about "under-pentration" and feel you need to resort to FMJ's, then switch guns.

    Seriously, if any of you deliberately err on the side of over-penetration you are being irresponsible at best.
    The media has really made people paranoid about the overpenetration "issue".
    If your worried about penetration buy Magsafe or Glaser, but keep in mind an extended arm (or hand) will prohibit them from reaching the torso.

  8. #37
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    I think that the shooter is going to discover that he does have something to lose.

    It's a lil' thang called "FREEDOM"

  9. #38
    New Member Array revolver45acp's Avatar
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    unfortunately in Italy is not possible to use and carry hydraschock, hollow point, THV and all kind of pre-fragmented........
    ciao
    THE FINAL WEAPON IS THE BRAIN....

  10. #39
    Member Array mdmorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    If it had been a 45 it would have killed 815 people in 2 shots....
    And if it were a 10mm it would have killed 12,879 1/2 people, sucking them into a different space time reality.

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    NEVER. NEVER. NEVER carry FMJs. As this thread/case proves nothing good can happen if you have to use one. Even in your little .22lr/mags you use HP rounds. The only use for FMJs is at the range. Because they're cheap. Also, they'll tend to kick a bit harder- being a heavier projectile- maybe get you used to holding tighter to your gun.
    Besides, JHPs (or Glazers) will make a much bigger impression on your target than a .3XX" hole all the way through. The ONLY time I ever carried FMJs was when a buddy of mine shot my JHPs at the range when I was watching someone else. (I get distracted by blondes with large caliber handguns VERY easily )

    ---------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by mdmorgan View Post
    And if it were a 10mm it would have killed 12,879 1/2 people, sucking them into a different space time reality.
    Nah. It would only do half that. You want one that would take 12,879.5 people to another space/time reality, you want the 'MOTHER' of all 'handgun' rounds. the .50AE.

    ...now I just have to get one... Anyone want to lend me $1,563 so I can get one?
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

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    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
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    Soooo its true? No matter how ya slice it .380's suck.......

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    NO, I think the general consensus is that all handgun calibers suck, some just suck less.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggie313 View Post
    I carry FMJs in my 380. Ill take my chances with FMJ having a better chance of stopping a threat over HP through clothing and what not. Also, if my life is in danger and I need to shoot, my life is more valuable to me, than someone behind the BG. sorry
    "my life is more valuable to me, than someone behind the BG."

    Of what use is defending yourself from the initial attack, only to go to prison for a couple decades for killing some innocent bystander?
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  15. #44
    Member Array TaterSalad's Avatar
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    The FMJ had absolutely nothing to do with this conviction, I could care less what was said on TrueTV. The charge this guy was convicted under boils down to one thing...

    It is not necessary to pull a gun on an unarmed person. Using ball ammo is not considered reckless - contrary to the beliefs expressed here, it is actually the other way around. Threw out the '70s and early '80s, JHP where debated heavily in our court system. The ACLU didn't wan't cops carrying them. As a matter of fact, NATO bans JHP because the Euro's think they are inhumane and only FMJ are allowed.

    Below are exerpts of WI law, along with a link to the state's online law database. Simply, this case and the two deaths 'legally' had nothing to do with FMJ; it's all about an idiot pulling a gun out for a 'good ole fashion' fist fight!!!

    940.08  Homicide by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, explosives or fire.
    (1) Except as provided in sub. (3), whoever causes the death of another human being by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon, explosives or fire is guilty of a Class G felony.

    [Sub Section 3]

    (3) The mitigating circumstances specified in s. 940.01 (2) are not defenses to prosecution for this offense.

    940.01  First-degree intentional homicide.

    (2) Mitigating circumstances. The following are affirmative defenses to prosecution under this section which mitigate the offense to 2nd-degree intentional homicide under s. 940.05:
    (a) Adequate provocation. Death was caused under the influence of adequate provocation as defined in s. 939.44.
    (b) Unnecessary defensive force. Death was caused because the actor believed he or she or another was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that the force used was necessary to defend the endangered person, if either belief was unreasonable.
    (c) Prevention of felony. Death was caused because the actor believed that the force used was necessary in the exercise of the privilege to prevent or terminate the commission of a felony, if that belief was unreasonable.
    (d) Coercion; necessity. Death was caused in the exercise of a privilege under s. 939.45 (1).

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tutes/940/I/08

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    +1 Tater.

    Bullet design is irrelevant in this case. Careless/reckless acts ARE.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

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