testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo! - Page 2

Testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo!

This is a discussion on Testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo! within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by smolck OKay, so the HST must be the one I saw the review of, I thought that Hydra-Shock was the same as ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32
Like Tree6Likes

Thread: testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo!

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    OKay, so the HST must be the one I saw the review of, I thought that Hydra-Shock was the same as HST. Glad to hear, mine comes in 50 round boxes.
    HST = LE - Tactical HST (HST stands for Hydra-Shok Two)

    Hydra-Shok = LE - Tactical Hydra-Shok
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333
    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post

    chicken remains,
    Um...

    Did you boil the chicken and make soup first?

    With onions, celery, carrot, aromatic herbs and some beef bones?

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Not to rain on anyone's parade, but why don't you go to Brass Fetcher Ballistic testing, brassfetcher.com and review the tests of several popular rounds including the Federal Guard Dog. What is most impressive about the Guard Dog is the same overall expansion even through bone. In an additional test the round penetrated the gelatin block and through a typical drywall wall, but did not penetrate the second test block of gelatin. I personally have experimented with numerous 9mm loads and bullets over the years and have found the light bullets driven very fast to be the best option for self defense. My experience with the 147 grain bullets is they will over penetrate. Meaning they have the potential to go through an intended target and then possibly injure or kill an innocent. The first lesson in concealed carry is when you fire a round, "you own it".
    Do you have any proof that 147 gr. bullets will over penetrate?

    Do you have any proof that with 9mm "light bullets driven very fast" are best?

    I'll stick with Dr. Robert's conclusions: Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    I will address a few things here, I have done many tests like this and I have had no indication of deteriorating HP performance due to block "wear" as I guess we could term it. The one thing I do know is that whether I am shooting .38, .357, .380, or 9mm, Corbon DPX ammo and Hornady CD almost always expand 100% of the time, regardless of when they were shot into the block. So I know that HP's WILL work, but it seems that when faced with the worst case scenario of 4 layers of denim than many HP' don't work as advertised.
    Agreed. I've yet to see the Barnes TAC-XP bullet fail any testing in any caliber. (Barnes TAC-XP is the bullet COR-BON loads into their DPX round).

    Here's an excellent example of the .45 ACP 185 gr. +P TAC-XP working exactly as advertised: recovered 45 DPX bullet from autopsy
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern AZ
    Posts
    998
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Um...

    Did you boil the chicken and make soup first?

    With onions, celery, carrot, aromatic herbs and some beef bones?
    You bet. Hey the trend nowadays is to "Go Green", I just like to recycle and do my part, plus it's fun to add stuff like bone and cartilage to the mix. I'm surprised this thread was revised, some people didn't seem to like the results of my little test, I guess the only thing I can say is that the variables for each round are the same, and some brands work and other brands don't.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,129
    I use EFMJ in my PM9 - but the heavier, "LE" 124 gr +P version. I finally was able to order some more recently from ammunitiontogo...hadn't been able to find any for at least two years anywhere.

    http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...low-point-ammo

    Goldenloki has some pretty decent gel test results out of a short barrel (KT P11) pistol with this load. That very closely approximates the barrel length of my PM9. I fired 100 rounds through my PM9 with no issues...was very accurate, and low flash. My PM9 does not like the 147 gr Gold Dots that I use as a duty load in my Glocks, so EFMJ it is.

    ETA - test here: GoldenLoki.com
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  7. #22
    Member Array gigamortis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    258
    Keep in mind that a lot of current hollow point offerings on the market are designed to function most reliably out of a service length barrel. Results may vary when coupled with the slower velocities out of a pocket gun length barrel.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    1,198
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I use EFMJ in my PM9 - but the heavier, "LE" 124 gr +P version. I finally was able to order some more recently from ammunitiontogo...hadn't been able to find any for at least two years anywhere.

    Ammunition To Go : 50rds - 9mm Federal LE Tactical EFMJ 124gr. +P Ammo [P9CSP1] - $26.95

    Goldenloki has some pretty decent gel test results out of a short barrel (KT P11) pistol with this load. That very closely approximates the barrel length of my PM9. I fired 100 rounds through my PM9 with no issues...was very accurate, and low flash. My PM9 does not like the 147 gr Gold Dots that I use as a duty load in my Glocks, so EFMJ it is.

    ETA - test here: GoldenLoki.com

    Thanks for the link !!! I too have been looking for the heavier EFMJ's. I will use the lighter 105gr in my Diamondback DB9 since they do not recommend using +P, but I will use the heavier 124gr +P in my other carry guns. Thanks again. God Bless

  9. #24
    Member Array TommyGun4169's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Killadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    147
    Expanding FMJ's wrapped in tin instead of copper. These are the civilian version of Federals Premium EFMJ ! The lighter bullet weight gives it away. I checked these out, they didn't do it for me. I like the copper jacketed ones better. I'd rather use Critical Defense than these.

    Outlaw Guns and Only Outlaws Will Have Guns !!

  10. #25
    Member Array TommyGun4169's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Killadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Not to rain on anyone's parade, but why don't you go to Brass Fetcher Ballistic testing, brassfetcher.com and review the tests of several popular rounds including the Federal Guard Dog. What is most impressive about the Guard Dog is the same overall expansion even through bone. In an additional test the round penetrated the gelatin block and through a typical drywall wall, but did not penetrate the second test block of gelatin. I personally have experimented with numerous 9mm loads and bullets over the years and have found the light bullets driven very fast to be the best option for self defense. My experience with the 147 grain bullets is they will over penetrate. Meaning they have the potential to go through an intended target and then possibly injure or kill an innocent. The first lesson in concealed carry is when you fire a round, "you own it".
    115 gr. FMJ overpenetrate ! In your theory if a 147 gr in 9mm would overpenetrate then so would 185 gr in 45 acp and 180 gr in 40 S&W, it just don't make any sense ?
    The most a 147 gr 9mm penetrates is 15-16 inches in standard load, and 13 inches in +P loads. This is in Hollowpoint format . The +P version expands more so it penetrates slightly less. Until recently people hated 147 gr 9mm because of poor performance in the wimpy Sub-sonic loads. Now thaty they finally juiced them up and with the better bullet technology they actually work pretty good now. Many law enforcement branches use the 147 gr ! If they overpenetrated like you say, cops wouldn't use them either !

    Outlaw Guns and Only Outlaws Will Have Guns !!

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,129
    I have been carrying the Critical Defense rounds for about 9 months now. I really like them and I have seen a lot of tests with them. All seem to show the same results your tests do. The CD rounds expand every time no matter what they pass through first. I have been very impressed with them and will continue using them until something better comes along.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  12. #27
    New Member Array sixtiesstill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Plymouth. Ma
    Posts
    10
    My plan is to use Guard Dog in my home, and HST when I carry, with a backup of HST in my mag holster. My edc is a Ruger SR40c which will hold its own anywhere.

    Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
    Recon1342 likes this.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Recon1342's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Southern Idaho
    Posts
    937
    IT'S ALIVE!!!!!

    image.jpg

    Speer Gold Dots, FTW!!!
    Be without fear in the face of your enemies.
    Stand brave and upright, that the Lord may love thee.
    Speak the truth always, even if it means your death.
    Protect the helpless and do no wrong.

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Cadiz,Ky
    Posts
    1,331
    My personal choice is the 115gr Buffalo/Barnes. Hard to find and expensive. But not as expensive as your funeral.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Mountains of Western North Carolina
    Posts
    1,411
    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    On this fine Friday morning I was finally able to go out and test the very new Federal Guard Dog 105gr self defense round in 9mm caliber. This is Federals "EMFJ", which is an expanding full metal jacket, and touted as being impervious to expansion problems. Weighing in at only 105gr's it's a very light round, and so the point of this test will be to determine if A: It expands reliably, and B: How does it compare penetration wise to the other rounds I will be testing. The other rounds tested were, Hornady Critical Defense 115gr, PMC Starfire 124gr, and Federal HydraShock 147gr.

    The Setup: From 10' away I shot each round into 4 layers of denim, chicken remains, and 13% Knox Gelatin. I changed the gelatin to 13% because based on my .380 testing it was apparent that 10% Knox gelatin is still a bit weaker than ballistic gelatin, so penetration results WILL differ from FBI testing, I have no doubt, but the point is to see how the Guard Dog does RELATIVE to the other standard weight 9mm rounds. I hope you all like the chicken, I figured a little gristle, cartilage and thin chicken bones would make it a little more fun.

    Attachment 53211Attachment 53212Attachment 53213Attachment 53214Attachment 53215Attachment 53216

    Well I have to say I am undecided on this quasi-exotic new round from Federal. I think the principle of an EFMJ is sound, yet you can see that it still does not expand perfectly every time. It penetrated noticeably less than the other 9mm rounds that did expand, and the Critical Defense is a standard pressure round that's pretty light to begin with, so It would be my guess that if the FBI did testing on this that the Guard Dog would penetrate at least an inch or two less than 115 gr 9mm rounds. If only Federal made this a bit heavier and in a +P loading . Until then I guess I'll just stick with something more proven.
    Well done review! The Guard Dog always seemed kind of gimmicky to me. I will stick with the 124gr Gold Dot +P but I would be equally comfortable with the 124gr or 147gr HST. Good Luck!
    Retired Police Lieutenant, Retired USAF Reserve, Glock Armorer, NC CWP, HR-218 Qualified
    Second generation American, Third generation Legionnaire
    "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phil 4:13

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

federal guard dog
,
federal guard dog 9mm ammo review
,

federal guard dog ammo

,

federal guard dog ammo review

,
federal guard dog ammunition review
,
federal guard dog review
,

guard dog ammo

,

guard dog ammo review

,
guard dog ammo reviews
,
guard dog ammo test
,
guard dog home defense ammo review
,
guarddog ammo
Click on a term to search for related topics.