Testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo!

This is a discussion on Testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo! within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; On this fine Friday morning I was finally able to go out and test the very new Federal Guard Dog 105gr self defense round in ...

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Thread: testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo!

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    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    testing the new GUARD DOG SD ammo!

    On this fine Friday morning I was finally able to go out and test the very new Federal Guard Dog 105gr self defense round in 9mm caliber. This is Federals "EMFJ", which is an expanding full metal jacket, and touted as being impervious to expansion problems. Weighing in at only 105gr's it's a very light round, and so the point of this test will be to determine if A: It expands reliably, and B: How does it compare penetration wise to the other rounds I will be testing. The other rounds tested were, Hornady Critical Defense 115gr, PMC Starfire 124gr, and Federal HydraShock 147gr.

    The Setup: From 10' away I shot each round into 4 layers of denim, chicken remains, and 13% Knox Gelatin. I changed the gelatin to 13% because based on my .380 testing it was apparent that 10% Knox gelatin is still a bit weaker than ballistic gelatin, so penetration results WILL differ from FBI testing, I have no doubt, but the point is to see how the Guard Dog does RELATIVE to the other standard weight 9mm rounds. I hope you all like the chicken, I figured a little gristle, cartilage and thin chicken bones would make it a little more fun.

    Setup.jpgDead chicken aftermath.jpgGuard dog.jpgHornady CD.jpgPMC.jpgHydraShokc.jpg

    Well I have to say I am undecided on this quasi-exotic new round from Federal. I think the principle of an EFMJ is sound, yet you can see that it still does not expand perfectly every time. It penetrated noticeably less than the other 9mm rounds that did expand, and the Critical Defense is a standard pressure round that's pretty light to begin with, so It would be my guess that if the FBI did testing on this that the Guard Dog would penetrate at least an inch or two less than 115 gr 9mm rounds. If only Federal made this a bit heavier and in a +P loading . Until then I guess I'll just stick with something more proven.
    CaptSmith likes this.
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Just curious, if you were firing these into the same block of gel, the prior shots are creating cavities right? So there would be a lot empty space that could affect expansion, right? I know PMC sucks, but I have never seen the federals do so poorly.

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    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    Ya of course of the bullets are occasionally crossing cavity paths. If I had the money, time, and arm strength to sit there and make 4 different blocks I most definitely would. Until that time though I do what I can and simply post what happens.
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    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    Ya of course of the bullets are occasionally crossing cavity paths. If I had the money, time, and arm strength to sit there and make 4 different blocks I most definitely would. Until that time though I do what I can and simply post what happens.
    Please understand I like your tests and appreciate the effort. My post wasn't meant to be mean spirited it was just a question because I carry Federal 147gr in my EDC. I would hate to have this happen to me in a defensive shooting. I am trying to find a logical reason for 3 federals to perform so poorly. Can you tell me this, where they the last one's fired into the gel?

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    There is a considerable difference between Federal 147gr Hydra-Shock and HST(2), with HST(2) being the better choice.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Interesting that the 147gr Hydra-shok only penetrated 1 to 1 1/2 inches more than the 115gr Critical defense.
    The hydra-shok rounds basically didn't expand, and the critical defense rounds all expanded.
    I've always loaded my .44 mag with 245gr hydra-shoks, but I carry Winchester Ranger SXT 124gr in my 9mm.
    The critical defense rounds are impressive here.
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    There is a considerable difference between Federal 147gr Hydra-Shock and HST(2), with HST(2) being the better choice.
    OKay, so the HST must be the one I saw the review of, I thought that Hydra-Shock was the same as HST. Glad to hear, mine comes in 50 round boxes.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    Interesting that the 147gr Hydra-shok only penetrated 1 to 1 1/2 inches more than the 115gr Critical defense.
    The hydra-shok rounds basically didn't expand, and the critical defense rounds all expanded.
    I've always loaded my .44 mag with 245gr hydra-shoks, but I carry Winchester Ranger SXT 124gr in my 9mm.
    The critical defense rounds are impressive here.
    I have seen vids of the Ranger SXT 127gr +p+ not opening at all. I guess handgun bullets are only so good. Best to put 3 or 4 rounds into an attacker just in case I guess.

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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    OKay, so the HST must be the one I saw the review of, I thought that Hydra-Shock was the same as HST. Glad to hear, mine comes in 50 round boxes.
    Hydra Shok (not Shock) and HST are two different rounds.
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    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
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    Where were you able to purchase the Guard Dogs from and how much ?? I would like to use these as my carry round. From the pictures in my opinion it looks like the Guard Dogs worked pretty well, but I am not an expert, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express a while back Let us know. God Bless
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    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    Ok, to answer a whole bunch of questions: You can get the Guard Dog at midwayusa. In the pictures when I write 16+", that means it excited out the back of the block and I can only guess at how far it went, you will notice that only unexpanded bullets do that. The HydraShoks were shot last.

    I will address a few things here, I have done many tests like this and I have had no indication of deteriorating HP performance due to block "wear" as I guess we could term it. The one thing I do know is that whether I am shooting .38, .357, .380, or 9mm, Corbon DPX ammo and Hornady CD almost always expand 100% of the time, regardless of when they were shot into the block. So I know that HP's WILL work, but it seems that when faced with the worst case scenario of 4 layers of denim than many HP' don't work as advertised.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

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    Member Array ramblinman's Avatar
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    Some rounds you may want to include in future testing are gold dots and Corbon DPX. They seem to be one of, if not the, most popular and top of many tess, rounds. I applaud your efforts and know it would be impossible to include them all unless you were rich! The round that I carry, that offers awesome and reliable expansion, along with some of the best penetration stats, is corbon dpx. This round has 100% retention as it's made, I believe, of brass(maybe nickel I cannot recall) and not lead. It achieves the furthest penetration and expands more reliably than any other rounds in almost all the expert tests. It also is possibly the most expensive ammo on the market. I think I paid close to $40 for a box of 20. If penetration is not what your going for, ex live in a multi unit apartment etc, then don't use this round. I'm part of the "I would rather over penetrate and put the BG down, rather than under penetrate out if worry of bystanders" camp. You may only get one shot. Why use a round that will hit an arm and stop an inch short of a vital? If you decide to shoot your life is in danger so that is not the time to hope you get adequate penetration and expansion.

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    Member Array Gunsmoke16's Avatar
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    Hornady's only claim is that "We make large, open, fatal wound cavaties". I've seen animals put down with Hydro Shok and Hornady. The Hornady works, every time. Guess I'll stick with it until something better comes along. Sometimes it depends on the situation though. I crowded areas, maybe Magsafe/Glassier Safety Slugs.

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    New Member Array TheGuinea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    So I know that HP's WILL work, but it seems that when faced with the worst case scenario of 4 layers of denim than many HP' don't work as advertised.
    Actually if you watch all these testing vids on this youtube users page, you'll see that many (most) HP's do indeed work as advertised. Only a select few do not.

    tnoutdoors9's Channel - YouTube

    The Guinea

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    Member Array Dragonheart's Avatar
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    Not to rain on anyone's parade, but why don't you go to Brass Fetcher Ballistic testing, brassfetcher.com and review the tests of several popular rounds including the Federal Guard Dog. What is most impressive about the Guard Dog is the same overall expansion even through bone. In an additional test the round penetrated the gelatin block and through a typical drywall wall, but did not penetrate the second test block of gelatin. I personally have experimented with numerous 9mm loads and bullets over the years and have found the light bullets driven very fast to be the best option for self defense. My experience with the 147 grain bullets is they will over penetrate. Meaning they have the potential to go through an intended target and then possibly injure or kill an innocent. The first lesson in concealed carry is when you fire a round, "you own it".
    Rhcmlc likes this.

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