Does 9mm have enough stopping power?

This is a discussion on Does 9mm have enough stopping power? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Cuda66 And I've never read Mas say anything about how lethal a cartridge is. A good stopper, yes.. You haven't looked then. ...

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  1. #121
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    And I've never read Mas say anything about how lethal a cartridge is. A good stopper, yes..
    You haven't looked then. They are all over the place.

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  3. #122
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    You haven't looked then. They are all over the place.
    Really.

    Well, the last I read, he was bigger on the stopping part, not the lethal part.

    But, hey, read into it what you choose.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  4. #123
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Really.

    Well, the last I read, he was bigger on the stopping part, not the lethal part.

    But, hey, read into it what you choose.
    I have seen your spouting your same ramblings on other forums. welcome to the ignore list.

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    12 + 1 in the pipe, 12 more in spare mag. if 25 won't stop "it"...
    Yeah, my FNX-9 came with 3x17 round magazines. If I can't do it in 52 rounds I'm in serious trouble... I'm in trouble enough if I can't do it in two or three. Keep shooting center mass until the threat stops being a threat is how I was trained. As they say in real estate, location, location, location...

    As seen in the video of the officer being shot with the .45 the BG kept shooting to make sure the cop wasn't a threat. The cop fortunately survived and was able to stop the BG. But I believe the BG fired 14 rounds he said and the cop fired 12 rounds. Eventually the BG stopped being a threat so the cop stopped firing.

    Assuming you can shoot under stress well (not just shoot well, but under stress well) a 9mm should be plenty. You can get all exotic with Winchester Ranger 127 +P+, 14xgr +P's, etc. But 124gr NATO ball (+P roughly) has been killing or incapacitating people for a long time.

    The whole idea of a defensive shooting is to stop the threat from being a threat any more. Not killing. Sometimes you have to, sometimes the net effect of stopping the threat is death. I think the "one shot stop" is either the lawyers or guys trying to be macho about how big of a gun they carry. .380 and 9mm work for stopping the threat. It certainly helps to shoot only the one time so that the lawyers can't argue you were trying to kill him.

  6. #125
    Member Array Kahnkem's Avatar
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    I have no doubt it has enough. If it wasn't sufficient why would so many LE organizations use it? I carried a 9mm as my duty weapon for quite a while until I switched to a 45 acp.
    2nd Amendment, the one that protects the rest!

  7. #126
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    NO...I just saw a training video (it's on u tube) deputy killed by a crazed ex Vet with an M1 ... I believe the deputy shot him in the stomach with a 9mm and it was like he got hit with a mosquito just kept on firing.




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  8. #127
    Member Array johnbergsing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythree View Post
    NO...I just saw a training video (it's on u tube) deputy killed by a crazed ex Vet with an M1 ... I believe the deputy shot him in the stomach with a 9mm and it was like he got hit with a mosquito just kept on firing.




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    Chances are he wouldn't have reacted much different with a larger caliber bullet. Shot placement is everything. Even then, any pistol against an M1? Not good odds. I'd rather have the rifle!

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  9. #128
    New Member Array mythree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahnkem View Post
    I have no doubt it has enough. If it wasn't sufficient why would so many LE organizations use it? I carried a 9mm as my duty weapon for quite a while until I switched to a 45 acp.
    Why did you switch to a .45 ?


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  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythree View Post
    NO...I just saw a training video (it's on u tube) deputy killed by a crazed ex Vet with an M1 ... I believe the deputy shot him in the stomach with a 9mm and it was like he got hit with a mosquito just kept on firing.
    Really? You're REALLY going to base your entire opinion on all things terminal ballistic based on one video? Because, believe me, EVERY caliber has failed to render that mythical "one shot stop" up to and including .50 BMG and beyond. Basing ANYTHING about a subject as complex, fluid, and with thousands of variables on one video of ONE bullet being fired is.....well, let's just call it "simplistic."
    Cuda66 and JD like this.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythree View Post
    NO...I just saw a training video (it's on u tube) deputy killed by a crazed ex Vet with an M1 ... I believe the deputy shot him in the stomach with a 9mm and it was like he got hit with a mosquito just kept on firing.




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    Wait, you mean a singular shot with a pistol a to a non-vital rea didn't do the trick? I'm totally shocked!


    Officer Down: A Warrior's Sacrifice LawOfficer.com
    The Aftermath
    Remarkably, Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream. Although Soulis could not have known it, Palmer was wanted for murder in a neighboring state.

    Officer Down: A Warrior's Sacrifice LawOfficer.com
    Resistance to Gunfire
    Mettinger absorbed nine rounds from Borders' .45—six of which hit him in the torso and two more of which literally severed his right foot—without any significant effect on his fighting ability. This would have been remarkable even if Officer Borders had been firing marginally effective rounds, but he was using .45 caliber Gold Dot ammunition, which is considered by many to be the best man-stopper on the market.

    Accuracy trumps bore size, to quote the late Stephen Camp, "Placement is Power"

  12. #131
    Senior Member Array TonyDTrigger's Avatar
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    If can get 2 shots in center mass area there is no difference between the 3 calibers:

    One shot stop % on center mass that struck the heart or severed a major artery/vessel:
    9mm +P = 92%
    40 S&W = 94%
    45 ACP = 94%

    Two shots, same criteria:
    9mm +P = 99%
    40 S&W = 99%
    45 ACP = 99%
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  13. #132
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    .22 cal are what we call "get off me" guns....

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I don't know if it true or not, but a .22 can be just a powerful in the right gun...

    In a direct answer to the OP..."Why of course!"
    .22 cal are good little 2nd guns... tucked away somewhere in your belt.
    But stopping power is good...especially in gang or multiple shooter situations.

    In the end, its how, where, and when you decide to shoot...
    ...not the size of your gun. (ok, guys, I know where this is going... :>)

  14. #133
    Member Array MikeNice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    No, then I want a round that is good a rapidly STOPPING my assailant. I couldn't care less if they live through the experience or not, just as long as the stop what they're doing that makes me decide to shoot them.
    Like I heard a man say not long ago. "Yes sir, I meant to shoot him. Now him pasing on was between him and God."
    Remember the teacher telling you to “Bring enough for everybody”? That applies to gunfights, too. ~ Sarge @ Sarge's Roll Call

  15. #134
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    No 9mm does not have enough stopping power,at just 20 mph in my jeep if I fire a 9mm out the window I still have to use the brakes to stop the jeep
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  16. #135
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    .177 cal is where it's at.

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