Ballistic testing through bone

This is a discussion on Ballistic testing through bone within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well, in the short term, looks like I might pick up some 147 gr ammo for my 9mm pistols. I don't think I can afford ...

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Thread: Ballistic testing through bone

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Well, in the short term, looks like I might pick up some 147 gr ammo for my 9mm pistols. I don't think I can afford enough of that DPX to establish feeding reliability, and it seems too light in the 9mm version (heaviest is 115 gr).

    In the longer term, I may yet pick up a .45. I've thought about it for some time, but any pistol I get would need to serve both as a duty gun and as a CCW piece. Therein lies the rub - the G36 is only a hair smaller than my G19. The Kahr P45 is smaller, but still too large for my preferred mode of off-duty carry, which is in the pocket. Getting a .45 would essentially mean going back to the Smartcarry for my CCW purposes.

    Will have to ponder on this some more...
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    10thmt, for what it's worth, I think the 9mm will serve you just fine. You already have the g19, it's paid for and the practice ammo is cheap. I carry the g26 on a regular basis and feel it will do what needs done.
    I'm just sayin you already have a premire fighting gun. JMO.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    10thmt, for what it's worth, I think the 9mm will serve you just fine. You already have the g19, it's paid for and the practice ammo is cheap. I carry the g26 on a regular basis and feel it will do what needs done.
    I'm just sayin you already have a premire fighting gun. JMO.
    Actually, worth quite a bit. While we don't always agree, I certainly do respect your opinion.

    I thought you recently went back aboard the 1911 train?
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Actually, worth quite a bit. While we don't always agree, I certainly do respect your opinion.

    I thought you recently went back aboard the 1911 train?
    Well yes, I have been enjoying the 1911, and have carried it quite often lately. However, it has not changed my thoughts on the glock pistol, and what it brings to the table.
    I feel equally comfortable with both, and I appriciate what they both are.

    Actually, my thoughts are these two completely different designs are a professionals choice firearm. The upside to the 1911 is I don't worry about expensive designer bullets. I just stoke that sucker up with them big fat heavy 230 fmj and be done with it.

    The upside to the 9mm Glock is cheap shooting, very utility, and I think the 147 GS HPs equal the playing field pretty well.
    They are both original designs, copied over and over for a very good reason. They simply work.

    With 15 rounds of good ammo in that Glock, you are well armed, there ain't no disputing that my friend.
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  6. #20
    Member Array a__l__a__n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twc View Post
    That was interesting indeed. Kind of lessens my opinion of JHPs. Also interesting is the fact that the 140g cor-bon performed better than all of the heavier grain bullets.
    That data does not support the popular conclusion that heavier is better. In fact the lightest bullet tested performed the best.

    I'd like to see various weights and speeds of Barnes X bullets tested to see whether the lighter Barnes bullets would expand. There's reason to think they might, because they did perform well in the FBI windshield tests.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountShotula View Post
    They completed this study in July 2011, and they decided to use outdated bullet designs? Why test Hydrashok when HST is available and is of superior design? The same goes for using Ranger SXT and Hornady FTX.

    Also... I'm confused as to why they would shoot Gold Dot Short Barrel out of a Glock 22 as the GDSB was designed to fire out of barrels 3" and under, not 4.5" barrels.

    All this study has shown me is that the modern DPX design is excellent as most of us already knew, and that Hydrashok and SXT are both crappy designs which we already knew from failures in bare gelatin.

    I'd love to see some testing using the latest bullet technology...
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a__l__a__n View Post
    That data does not support the popular conclusion that heavier is better. In fact the lightest bullet tested performed the best.

    I'd like to see various weights and speeds of Barnes X bullets tested to see whether the lighter Barnes bullets would expand. There's reason to think they might, because they did perform well in the FBI windshield tests.
    DPX is a "lighter" bullet because it is made of copper rather than lead.

    Let's look at the Periodic Table of Elements:

    Cu = Copper / Copper has an atomic weight of 63.546 amu.

    Pb = Lead / Lead has an atomic weight of of 207.2 amu.

    Therefore, when found in exact quantities, say 1 gram of each, lead will always weigh more than copper.

    Therefore, your conclusion that the DPX is the "lightest" bullet in the bunch is true, but it is not the same as comparing a 155gr lead bullet to a 180gr lead bullet. In fact, the 140gr DPX is designed to be as heavy as possible in the given platform, which in this case is .40 S&W.

    Here is a direct quote from Corbon: "DPX is a solid copper hollowpoint bullet that combines the best of the lightweight high speed JHPs and the heavy weight, deep penetrating JHPs. Recoil and recovery between shots are similar to the light weight rounds while soft tissue penetration is similar to the heavy weight rounds."

    EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: It appears that the 140gr bullet was designed as a middleweight bullet comparable to the 165gr bullet, as Barnes also makes a TAC-XP bullet in 155gr which is likely the heaviest copper bullet possible in .40 S&W. M/LE TAC-XP Pistol Bullets | Barnes Bullets
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    A little bit more info regarding the copper bullets:

    As mentioned above, lead is significantly heavier than copper. So a copper bullet weighing 180 grains is going to be considerably longer than one of lead, which weighs the same.

    Therefore, the copper bullets are somewhat limited. They cannot be too long, or they'll take up powder space, and/or create excessive pressures.

    Copper is also harder than lead, which gives it a different terminal effect. A copper bullet will generally hold together better, too. Because there is no jacket core separation.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    The DPX is a great example of using speed to compensate for light weight, to give it penetration qualities usually gained by using weight/momentum.

    It is true that to make weight with solid copper the bullet must be made longer, which will take up case capacity. This can be challenging from a reloading standpoint, especially with rifle loads.

    For the extra cost involved, I would just as soon stick with conventional jacket lead.
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  11. #25
    RKM
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    I tend to like heavier bullets. Though, DPX in .45 is 185gr. The results everybody gets are good results. Good barrier penetration, deep penetration and reliable expansion. If they made it in 230gr, I'd buy it.

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