Which is more likely to overpenetrate?

Which is more likely to overpenetrate?

This is a discussion on Which is more likely to overpenetrate? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; overpenetrate as in through the threat with enough energy to seriously wound a bystander. A 380 fmj or a 9mm JHP that didn't expand?...

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Thread: Which is more likely to overpenetrate?

  1. #1
    Member Array ak74's Avatar
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    Which is more likely to overpenetrate?

    overpenetrate as in through the threat with enough energy to seriously wound a bystander. A 380 fmj or a 9mm JHP that didn't expand?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    9mm Hand Down ; )
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    Member Array YANG's Avatar
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    The purpose of a JHP is to prevent over penetration upon expansion. Being that it didn't expand, 9mm is my choice.

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    Distinguished Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Well, I wouldn't say that it's the purpose of a JHP to prevent overpenetration... but it is an important piece of the equation. I agree with Yang and Hogdaddy on the 9mm. You can't worry about overpenetration if you will follow the 4 basic rules of firearm safety. Even in a SD scenario.

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    Modern 9mm will do it the right way... modern 380 will not make it past 12" in ballistics gel and denim....
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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YANG View Post
    The purpose of a JHP is to prevent over penetration upon expansion.
    Lots of incorrect information floating around the Internet ...

    The purpose of a hollow point bullet is to expand upon impact, becoming larger in diameter and thereby creating a larger wound channel than a non-expanding bullet will do.

    Any reduction in penetration is a byproduct of the expansion, not the primary purpose of the expansion.

    FWIW, through-and-through shots, especially those that hit another person after exiting the original target, are much more common on TV than in real life.
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    Member Array JD Atewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Lots of incorrect information floating around the Internet ...

    The purpose of a hollow point bullet is to expand upon impact, becoming larger in diameter and thereby creating a larger wound channel than a non-expanding bullet will do.

    Any reduction in penetration is a byproduct of the expansion, not the primary purpose of the expansion.

    FWIW, through-and-through shots, especially those that hit another person after exiting the original target, are much more common on TV than in real life.
    Yes indeed. Take a look at properly expanded HP's and they look like little razor sharp stars of metal. They are all about creating more internal damage.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    not the primary purpose of the expansion.
    Maybe not the primary purpose, but controlling penetration IS a function of a HP bullet. In a street setting, you are responsible for where your bullets end up.

    And let's not forget, a bullet that stops inside it's target because of expansion will dump all of it's energy into said target. This is a primary factor in knockdown power. A large wound channel in itself does not "knockdown" a target.

    Think of it this way, a modern expandable broadhead used in archery hunting will cut a 1.5" path (with up to 4 cutting razor sharp blades) and a deer will still run hundreds of yards. Yet when hit with a bullet from a rifle, they often drop in their tracks with a much smaller wound channel. This is because the arrow only expends PART of it's energy going through a deer, the rest is dumped after it has gone through the target, while the expanded bullet that stays in the animal, spends all of it's energy there.

    Read some of the stuff Mas Ayoob writes on the subject, he does a better job than I and has firsthand experience with people shooting people.

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    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post

    And let's not forget, a bullet that stops inside it's target because of expansion will dump all of it's energy into said target. This is a primary factor in knockdown power. A large wound channel in itself does not "knockdown" a target.
    Well....a hand gun bullet in and of itself will never "knockdown" a human, i.e. in the sense that the sheer force of the bullet plows them down. That can be exhibited by the fact that it doesn't "knockdown" the shooter either. Being shot has quite the psychological effect on you though, and of course if you shoot them in the cns, heart, exc that may cause them to "collapse".
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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Maybe not the primary purpose, but controlling penetration IS a function of a HP bullet.
    Uh, isn't that what I said???

    Any reduction in penetration is a byproduct of the expansion
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    This is a primary factor in knockdown power. A large wound channel in itself does not "knockdown" a target.
    Despite what is shown on TV, there's no such thing as knock-down power with any handgun short of maybe the .500 S&W. It's an urban legend/TV myth that you can knock someone off their feet with a handgun round.
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    Member Array CountShotula's Avatar
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    Shoot sledge hammer's if you want stopping power.

    OP, your question pretty much is whether a .380 ball round or a 9mm ball round (since the JHP didn't expand) will overpenetrate.
    They might overpenetrate, they might not. Bullets can be funny sometimes.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
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    9mm

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    9mm probably by about 4-7+ inches.
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Uh, isn't that what I said???

    Despite what is shown on TV, there's no such thing as knock-down power with any handgun short of maybe the .500 S&W. It's an urban legend/TV myth that you can knock someone off their feet with a handgun round.
    Defensive, party of one, your table is now available. What is with the people on this forum that we can't have discussions without someone getting pissy? Are we men or girls?

    And I am well aware that a handgun isn't going to lift someone off their feet. However, if you READ things written by experts in the field of real life shootings, they will tell you that there is a discernable difference in the reaction and body motions of a person hit with a well expanding hollow point and a FMJ. That was my point and I don't get my information on ballistics, handgun fighting, and so forth from TV shows.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Defensive, party of one, your table is now available. What is with the people on this forum that we can't have discussions without someone getting pissy? Are we men or girls?

    And I am well aware that a handgun isn't going to lift someone off their feet. However, if you READ things written by experts in the field of real life shootings, they will tell you that there is a discernable difference in the reaction and body motions of a person hit with a well expanding hollow point and a FMJ. That was my point and I don't get my information on ballistics, handgun fighting, and so forth from TV shows.
    You are the one making the urban myth statements. I'm just busting your balloon. I've read most of the so-called experts on shooting and I don't remember anyone saying there is "knock-down" power in a handgun bullet. Stopping power, yes. You may not get your information from TV, but you are, unwittingly or not, perpetuating their myths by the way you phrase your statements.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

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