Opnion on 9mm ammo/gun match up with Federal HST LE 147 and Speer LE 124+P

[JBachman]

just wanted to say thanks to all above for great feedback and link to the shot timer from bklynboy, and to add that I definitely think the standard pressure 147 had less recoil than the +P

also I wanted to try the Rangers but they were restricted; delivery to LE agency only

I have literally thousands of rounds of Winchester ranger bonded. Sgammo.com

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[DefensiveCarry.com]

[macg19]

I have literally thousands of rounds of Winchester ranger bonded. Sgammo.com

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thanks for the link, I bought from policehq.com and it was the Win T series that was restricted, not sure what the difference is or why.

[TSiWRX]

I'm of the opinion that as long as you have good SD/HD rounds, you're good-to-go - and that everything else boils down to the reliability of the ammo in "going bang" *IN YOUR SPECIFIC AND UNIQUE PISTOL* (i.e. not "his" Kahr, not "my" Kahr, but "your" Kahr, the one that you own and is in your hands) as well as your comfort level and performance in shooting the gun/ammo.

I like the 147 gr. loads, for my defensive 9s. I use Federal's HST in all of my defensive 9s with the sole exception of my Kahr PM9, where I substitute Speer's GDHP of the same 147 gr., because my PM9 seems to "hang" just for a hair, as the slide goes into battery from slide-lock (either power-stroking or using the slide-stop/release) with the HSTs.

[TX0303]

just wanted to say thanks to all above for great feedback and link to the shot timer from bklynboy, and to add that I definitely think the standard pressure 147 had less recoil than the +P

also I wanted to try the Rangers but they were restricted; delivery to LE agency only

That is a Winchester rule, same as Federal's with their HSTs. It is not a law and you can buy them from a dealer that buys overruns or LEO returns, such as AmmunitionToGo.com or SGAmmo.

[JBachman]

That is a Winchester rule, same as Federal's with their HSTs. It is not a law and you can buy them from a dealer that buys overruns or LEO returns, such as AmmunitionToGo.com

Yep. Just ordered another 500 Ranger Bonded 147gr 9mm.

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[TX-JB]

The Ranger T's are the way to go, if possible. The Ranger T's are the original "Black Talon" bullet, except brass colored instead of black.

For those not familiar with the original Black Talons, here's the story. The Black Talons came out in the late 80's and quickly became a LE favorite. They made the national media, when several ER physicians started making complaints about losing patients to the round. According to the ER doc's, the bullets were rapidly expanding and the sharp edges of the petals were slicing up tissue, causing extensive bleeding and sometimes separating and causing additional wound channels. Although an outright ban was attempted, Winchester took them off the market. A year or two later the Ranger T's came out as an "LE only" round. Same bullet, different color. I'm not so sure the bullet hasn't shown up in some of their other "LE Only" loads, the bullet sure works.

[ranastas]

the ranger t is a good bullet and yes it is the old black talon sans mollybdenum coating, but the hst's or for that matter the gold dot as well since iirc is the same projectile now, IMO from research I've done including their FBI test which you cam watch on their le site to tests I've done on my own in water jugs and wet news paper and the results bared true through my own tests. the round is nasty it holds it's weight and looks like a octopus swimming backwards when it opens. for what it's worth I wouldn't feel undergunned with either or cordon, or golden sabers. only thing I'm not a fan of is 9bple

[JBachman]

FWIW, the Gold Dot & HST are not the same projectile. Gold Dot is a bonded bullet, the HST is not. The Gold Dot is very sensitive to velocity in terms of expansion, the HST has a very large velocity window in terms of expansion. I choose the Ranger bonded for barrier penetration. The HST does great in barrier penetration as well... Except for auto glass.

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[ranastas]

my bad I thought since they are combined I thought it was a Speer projectile

[Cuda66]

The Ranger T's are the way to go, if possible. The Ranger T's are the original "Black Talon" bullet, except brass colored instead of black.

For those not familiar with the original Black Talons, here's the story. The Black Talons came out in the late 80's and quickly became a LE favorite. They made the national media, when several ER physicians started making complaints about losing patients to the round. According to the ER doc's, the bullets were rapidly expanding and the sharp edges of the petals were slicing up tissue, causing extensive bleeding and sometimes separating and causing additional wound channels. Although an outright ban was attempted, Winchester took them off the market. A year or two later the Ranger T's came out as an "LE only" round. Same bullet, different color. I'm not so sure the bullet hasn't shown up in some of their other "LE Only" loads, the bullet sure works.

the ranger t is a good bullet and yes it is the old black talon sans mollybdenum coating, but the hst's or for that matter the gold dot as well since iirc is the same projectile now, IMO from research I've done including their FBI test which you cam watch on their le site to tests I've done on my own in water jugs and wet news paper and the results bared true through my own tests. the round is nasty it holds it's weight and looks like a octopus swimming backwards when it opens. for what it's worth I wouldn't feel undergunned with either or cordon, or golden sabers. only thing I'm not a fan of is 9bple

Sorry, guys...but the Ranger-T is NOT the same old Black Talon sans molycoat.

As I stated in another thread:

Ranger SXT is a Black Talon sans molycoat (SXT--Same eXact Talon)--although, some of them still wore their molycoat.

Ranger-T is an improved Talon; it does much better at barrier penetration than BT/SXT.

As far as efficacy, however, R-T, HST, and GD are all pretty much the same, and I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them in my defensive pistols (assuming that I'd tested 'em and verified my pistol liked 'em).