This is a discussion on Rem GS and jacket separation within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, so I'm pretty much a noobie when it comes to most things firearms so be easy on me. I've been doing some research on ...
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Ok, so I'm pretty much a noobie when it comes to most things firearms so be easy on me. I've been doing some research on Golden Sabers and how it seems a few tests some people have done, that I've seen on youtube, seem disappointed with this ammo due to a lot of jacket separation seen. What exactly does this mean and is this something to be concerned about in a SHTF situation?
Nearly all jacketed ammo will have the jacket separate from the lead (or other metal) core under the 'right' circumstances. So-called 'bonded' bullets are less prone to this happening, but realistically it's more of a concern for big-game hunting than it is for defensive shooting with a handgun.
You didn't say what the source of your info is, but if it's anonymous individuals doing "ammo tests" on YouTube, apply a credibility factor of about 0.05 to those videos. As a career test engineer, my observation is that most yahoos posting their "test" videos on line have so many uncontrolled variables, their results are flat out meaningless. Shoot into jugs of water? Shoot into packs of wet newspapers? Shoot into blocks of home-made Knox gelatin? Barely entertaining, much less noteworthy.
The info is available on-line to the diligent searcher, and I would put far more faith in test data from the major ammo manufacturers (Remington, Federal, Winchester, Hornady) regarding their law enforcement ammo than any 12 amateur videos I see on You Tube.
My opinion - worth exactly what you're paying for it - is that with top-line defensive ammo from the major manufacturers (yes, close to a buck a round), you won't have to concern yourself with jacket separation or other issues. It's damn good stuff, WAY better than anything available 20 years ago.
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What I gather from all ballistics testing I see is if you shot 20 tests of a given round, into different media, at different angles, with different calibers...all of which would more closely resemble a real life scenario, you would come up with a different result for each test. No one really knows what a bullet will do when it leaves its casing. All this boils down to is...put the round where its supposed to go and more times than not, it will do what its supposed to do. I dont sweat too much about my ammo. Most of the hype is just that...marketing hype.
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The tests by Tnoutdoors9 on youtube are as good as you can find. Scientific, no, and he says so on his videos. Even controlled tests of bullets hitting gelatin are at best a "possibility" of what might happen. Problem is, if you shoot someone center mass in the chest, you have a breast bone and ribs that will almost certainly be hit. And they are only an inch or two below the surface.
Back to your question, the Golden Saber does come in a bonded variety and that one stays together better. The "best" choice in carry ammo is one that has a proven record on the streets. Gold Dot and CorBon are two that come high on that list. The DPX is probably one of the best choices bar none, but at $40 for 20 not too many people buy it.
NO pistol bullet is 100%, they travel far too slow to be 100%. The best you can do is practice with what you carry so you can put it where it counts. For what it is worth I carry Gold Dots because they are proven on the street, reasonably priced, and readily available for me locally.
Here's a thought to put your mind at ease. I promise you that criminals do not care what bullets they carry, and they kill people all the time. HITTING what you aim at, is far more important than what bullet you hit them with.
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Their are many more things to worry about than this issue.Originally Posted by Sledge
Golden Saber is on DocGKR's list of acceptable ammo: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
Insure the ammo feeds in your gun, shoots to point of aim, then buy a sufficient quantity from the same lot of ammo and replace it in your gun every 6 months.
Then, forget about it.
Focus on fundamentals and leave the bullet of the month BS to everyone else.
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I use GS in all calibers. It has performed well on live game, and that's good enough for me.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
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Talking about ballistics and learning as much as a person can hardly constitutes a BS claim.
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Well, I just bought 100 rounds of Golden Saber 9mm 124 grain non-bonded BJHP. I did alot of research on this round and from what I found it performs very well as a defensive carry round. I am using them as my carry round. They sell a bonded version as well but that is mainly for law enforcement use. The bonded rounds are better for shooting through barriers such as auto glass, doors, etc., situations that the police might come across. They will hold together better for those purposes but will not expand quite as much in a human body. For defensive carry, shooting a human or animal, it really makes no difference because even if the jacket separates, it will still do as much if not more damage as you now have two projectiles in the body. The non-bonded will also expand more. Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated ;)
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I thought about switching carry ammo because of jacket separation issues. Most of the time, the issue is present in tests where jugs of water or newspaper are used. These tests aren't very accurate. However, in ballistics gel tests, the golden sabers stay together most of the time and if the jacket does separate, it usually does it during the last few inches of travel.
They feed well in all of my guns and have a decent track record. They are also available locally and online and decent prices. I see no reason to change ammo.
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I've seen the Jacket separation videos however it is cheap if purchased online for the most part. And it feeds well in 1911's which I think makes it poppular. I have seen a chart but can't think where now of the 185+P very well in 45.
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I also use the 9mm 124 grain BJHP. Point of impact is very good in my G19, and I don't worry about the jacket separating. Price is a factor, as I like to shoot my carry ammo every now and again. As a bonus it feels a lot like the Winchester NATO rounds I generally use at the range.
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