Did my first .380 penetration test

[defensive007]

Penetrated through 4 layers of denim and exactly 2 milk jugs full of water and fell to the ground as it exited the second jug. To me this is enogh for this little round about a foot of penetration maybe more.

HORNADY CRITICAL DEFENSE at 5 yards with my Sig P238

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[grouse]

What's the brand of ammo?

[Gforty]

What's the brand of ammo?

...and the distance to the target?

[gunsnroses]

It looks like it did its job. I would like to see a 9mm go through the same exact test and then have a side-by-side comparison in the two rounds.

[Cuda66]

Except that when you want to compare it to a real tissue simulant, you can cut your penetration about in half.

There's a reason that properly calibrated tests rarely have .380 JHPs both expand an penetrate deeply.

IIRC, in actual simulant tests, the HCD (when it expands) only gets abour 10". Not deep enough.

[defensive007]

Except that when you want to compare it to a real tissue simulant, you can cut your penetration about in half.

There's a reason that properly calibrated tests rarely have .380 JHPs both expand an penetrate deeply.

IIRC, in actual simulant tests, the HCD (when it expands) only gets abour 10". Not deep enough.

when you say 10 inches is not enough what are you shooting that you need more than that to hit a vital organ?

[Kahnkem]

Ok, is HCD suppose to stop inside the intended target or penetrate and exit? Some defense loads are made to exit, some are supposed to stop inside the person. 10 to 12" would be a definite stop inside a person round, if you hit a bone it would stop as well. Over penetration may mean it exits the intended target and hits a bystander or flies into a house.

[Aiko]

Try a box of Buffalo Bore 100 gr +P. I loved that round out of my P238.

[defensive007]

I have been wanting to get a box of BB but have read the plus P ammo tends to damage where the slide hits on the rear and frame/ not saying it cannot be fired / other say to get a spring that can handle more pounds of pressure if you do choose to shoot it then get a recoil spring that handles more pressure: just what I have read not sure if these are facts.

[Cuda66]

when you say 10 inches is not enough what are you shooting that you need more than that to hit a vital organ?

Ok, is HCD suppose to stop inside the intended target or penetrate and exit? Some defense loads are made to exit, some are supposed to stop inside the person. 10 to 12" would be a definite stop inside a person round, if you hit a bone it would stop as well. Over penetration may mean it exits the intended target and hits a bystander or flies into a house.

12 to 18 inches is the desired depth--in simulant.

First off, it assumes a less than optimum angle shot, and the likelyhood of an arm being struck first. Real life shoots aren't like silhouette targets; your assailant likely won't drop his arms to his sides and squarely present his chest to you. Measure from the outside of your right bicep to your left nipple--how far is that? Now, try it with your arm raised in front of your chest, like you were pointing a weapon...bet it's 12" or better.

Second, simulant doesn't have bones. The 12"+ assumes that the bullet will go through some of those on the way.

Now--on overpenetration...if you have a properly functioning JHP, it's rarely an issue. Skin, you see, is an incredibly flexible organ...it'll stretch a LOT before it breaks, and is very good at stopping exiting bullets. It's common for a bullet to come to rest on the inside of the skin, and not exiting. If it does exit, clothes are also incredibly effective at stopping the round...and should it get through those, the bullet is normally found laying on the ground a few feet beyond exit...totally spent, and not a threat.

The FBI uses a 12" minimum...and while it is a semi-abitrary number, it's also a pretty solid fact that rounds that meet that criteria also do very well on the street.

[Majorlk]

Now--on overpenetration...if you have a properly functioning JHP, it's rarely an issue. Skin, you see, is an incredibly flexible organ...it'll stretch a LOT before it breaks, and is very good at stopping exiting bullets. It's common for a bullet to come to rest on the inside of the skin, and not exiting. If it does exit, clothes are also incredibly effective at stopping the round...and should it get through those, the bullet is normally found laying on the ground a few feet beyond exit...totally spent, and not a threat.

I agree. I've been know to be wrong on occasion, but I am willing to bet that through-and-through shots are much more common on TV and in the movies than they are in real life. Same deal with such a shot having enough oomph left to do serious injury to a bystander some feet away.

[defensive007]

i guess everyone has their opinions I simply shared my experience with this ammo and am sure any BG wouldnt want 6 or 12 of these through their body no matter what anyone says....CONCEAl-ABIITY is the key on why the .380 is such a popular round? pocket carry #1

[Cuda66]

i guess everyone has their opinions I simply shared my experience with this ammo and am sure any BG wouldnt want 6 or 12 of these through their body no matter what anyone says....CONCEAl-ABIITY is the key on why the .380 is such a popular round? pocket carry #1

No rational person would want to take a hit, of course not.

Assuming any potential adversary is going to be rational, however...bad idea. As is assuming that you'll get to take a dozen shots, and that you'll land all of them...another bad idea.

If I carry a .380, it's loaded with FMJ. I'd rather have a round that will do some damage that'll make 'em stop, rather than counting on them saying owie.

[defensive007]

Well said and your opinion is very well respected

[deadguy]

...

Now--on overpenetration...if you have a properly functioning JHP, it's rarely an issue. Skin, you see, is an incredibly flexible organ...it'll stretch a LOT before it breaks, and is very good at stopping exiting bullets. It's common for a bullet to come to rest on the inside of the skin, and not exiting. If it does exit, clothes are also incredibly effective at stopping the round...and should it get through those, the bullet is normally found laying on the ground a few feet beyond exit...totally spent, and not a threat.
.

to illustrate your point, this is a real life, my-own-eyes experience.

I have seen a suicide victim that put a 45 on his sternum and pulled the trigger. Tshirt was all that was between muzzle and skin. Bullet entered sternum, exited sternum with a hole 25-30% larger than entrance wound, blew through the heart, and embedded itself into the ribcage behind the left lung. No exit. 45acp. Total penetration of less than a foot. Distance from muzzle to POI, 0".

One person, one of MANY examples of GS wounds that resulted in death. Interpret as you all wish.