Did my first .380 penetration test

This is a discussion on Did my first .380 penetration test within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Penetrated through 4 layers of denim and exactly 2 milk jugs full of water and fell to the ground as it exited the second jug. ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
Like Tree5Likes

Thread: Did my first .380 penetration test

  1. #1
    Member Array defensive007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    230

    Did my first .380 penetration test

    Penetrated through 4 layers of denim and exactly 2 milk jugs full of water and fell to the ground as it exited the second jug. To me this is enogh for this little round about a foot of penetration maybe more.

    HORNADY CRITICAL DEFENSE at 5 yards with my Sig P238
    Attached Images
    Last edited by defensive007; October 9th, 2011 at 12:05 PM. Reason: ammo brand
    I have yet to be attacked by a block of ballistic gelatin but.........

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    1,792
    What's the brand of ammo?

  4. #3
    Member Array Gforty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by grouse View Post
    What's the brand of ammo?
    ...and the distance to the target?

  5. #4
    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    America
    Posts
    422
    It looks like it did its job. I would like to see a 9mm go through the same exact test and then have a side-by-side comparison in the two rounds.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,197
    Except that when you want to compare it to a real tissue simulant, you can cut your penetration about in half.

    There's a reason that properly calibrated tests rarely have .380 JHPs both expand an penetrate deeply.

    IIRC, in actual simulant tests, the HCD (when it expands) only gets abour 10". Not deep enough.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  7. #6
    Member Array defensive007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    230
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Except that when you want to compare it to a real tissue simulant, you can cut your penetration about in half.

    There's a reason that properly calibrated tests rarely have .380 JHPs both expand an penetrate deeply.

    IIRC, in actual simulant tests, the HCD (when it expands) only gets abour 10". Not deep enough.
    when you say 10 inches is not enough what are you shooting that you need more than that to hit a vital organ?
    I have yet to be attacked by a block of ballistic gelatin but.........

  8. #7
    Member Array Kahnkem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    158
    Ok, is HCD suppose to stop inside the intended target or penetrate and exit? Some defense loads are made to exit, some are supposed to stop inside the person. 10 to 12" would be a definite stop inside a person round, if you hit a bone it would stop as well. Over penetration may mean it exits the intended target and hits a bystander or flies into a house.
    2nd Amendment, the one that protects the rest!

  9. #8
    Member Array Aiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    387
    Try a box of Buffalo Bore 100 gr +P. I loved that round out of my P238.

  10. #9
    Member Array defensive007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    230
    I have been wanting to get a box of BB but have read the plus P ammo tends to damage where the slide hits on the rear and frame/ not saying it cannot be fired / other say to get a spring that can handle more pounds of pressure if you do choose to shoot it then get a recoil spring that handles more pressure: just what I have read not sure if these are facts.
    I have yet to be attacked by a block of ballistic gelatin but.........

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,197
    Quote Originally Posted by defensive007 View Post
    when you say 10 inches is not enough what are you shooting that you need more than that to hit a vital organ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahnkem View Post
    Ok, is HCD suppose to stop inside the intended target or penetrate and exit? Some defense loads are made to exit, some are supposed to stop inside the person. 10 to 12" would be a definite stop inside a person round, if you hit a bone it would stop as well. Over penetration may mean it exits the intended target and hits a bystander or flies into a house.
    12 to 18 inches is the desired depth--in simulant.

    First off, it assumes a less than optimum angle shot, and the likelyhood of an arm being struck first. Real life shoots aren't like silhouette targets; your assailant likely won't drop his arms to his sides and squarely present his chest to you. Measure from the outside of your right bicep to your left nipple--how far is that? Now, try it with your arm raised in front of your chest, like you were pointing a weapon...bet it's 12" or better.

    Second, simulant doesn't have bones. The 12"+ assumes that the bullet will go through some of those on the way.

    Now--on overpenetration...if you have a properly functioning JHP, it's rarely an issue. Skin, you see, is an incredibly flexible organ...it'll stretch a LOT before it breaks, and is very good at stopping exiting bullets. It's common for a bullet to come to rest on the inside of the skin, and not exiting. If it does exit, clothes are also incredibly effective at stopping the round...and should it get through those, the bullet is normally found laying on the ground a few feet beyond exit...totally spent, and not a threat.

    The FBI uses a 12" minimum...and while it is a semi-abitrary number, it's also a pretty solid fact that rounds that meet that criteria also do very well on the street.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Naugatuck, CT
    Posts
    2,406
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Now--on overpenetration...if you have a properly functioning JHP, it's rarely an issue. Skin, you see, is an incredibly flexible organ...it'll stretch a LOT before it breaks, and is very good at stopping exiting bullets. It's common for a bullet to come to rest on the inside of the skin, and not exiting. If it does exit, clothes are also incredibly effective at stopping the round...and should it get through those, the bullet is normally found laying on the ground a few feet beyond exit...totally spent, and not a threat.
    I agree. I've been know to be wrong on occasion, but I am willing to bet that through-and-through shots are much more common on TV and in the movies than they are in real life. Same deal with such a shot having enough oomph left to do serious injury to a bystander some feet away.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  13. #12
    Member Array defensive007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    230
    i guess everyone has their opinions I simply shared my experience with this ammo and am sure any BG wouldnt want 6 or 12 of these through their body no matter what anyone says....CONCEAl-ABIITY is the key on why the .380 is such a popular round? pocket carry #1
    I have yet to be attacked by a block of ballistic gelatin but.........

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,197
    Quote Originally Posted by defensive007 View Post
    i guess everyone has their opinions I simply shared my experience with this ammo and am sure any BG wouldnt want 6 or 12 of these through their body no matter what anyone says....CONCEAl-ABIITY is the key on why the .380 is such a popular round? pocket carry #1
    No rational person would want to take a hit, of course not.

    Assuming any potential adversary is going to be rational, however...bad idea. As is assuming that you'll get to take a dozen shots, and that you'll land all of them...another bad idea.

    If I carry a .380, it's loaded with FMJ. I'd rather have a round that will do some damage that'll make 'em stop, rather than counting on them saying owie.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  15. #14
    Member Array defensive007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    230
    Well said and your opinion is very well respected
    I have yet to be attacked by a block of ballistic gelatin but.........

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,612
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    ...

    Now--on overpenetration...if you have a properly functioning JHP, it's rarely an issue. Skin, you see, is an incredibly flexible organ...it'll stretch a LOT before it breaks, and is very good at stopping exiting bullets. It's common for a bullet to come to rest on the inside of the skin, and not exiting. If it does exit, clothes are also incredibly effective at stopping the round...and should it get through those, the bullet is normally found laying on the ground a few feet beyond exit...totally spent, and not a threat.
    .
    to illustrate your point, this is a real life, my-own-eyes experience.

    I have seen a suicide victim that put a 45 on his sternum and pulled the trigger. Tshirt was all that was between muzzle and skin. Bullet entered sternum, exited sternum with a hole 25-30% larger than entrance wound, blew through the heart, and embedded itself into the ribcage behind the left lung. No exit. 45acp. Total penetration of less than a foot. Distance from muzzle to POI, 0".

    One person, one of MANY examples of GS wounds that resulted in death. Interpret as you all wish.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

.380 overpenetration
,
.380 penetration
,

.380 penetration test

,
.380 penetration tests
,
.380 wall penetration
,
380 ammo penetration tests
,
380 penetration
,

380 penetration test

,
380 wall penetration
,
critical defense bone simulant
,
my first penetration
,
penetration test buffalo arm 380
Click on a term to search for related topics.