Avoid "Ranger Bonded 9mm 124gr +P (RA9BA)" from www.sgammo.com

This is a discussion on Avoid "Ranger Bonded 9mm 124gr +P (RA9BA)" from www.sgammo.com within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey guys, Recently bought 100 rounds of "Ranger Bonded 9mm 124gr+P JHP" from SGAmmo.com When it arrived to my house, I was dismayed that it ...

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Thread: Avoid "Ranger Bonded 9mm 124gr +P (RA9BA)" from www.sgammo.com

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Avoid "Ranger Bonded 9mm 124gr +P (RA9BA)" from www.sgammo.com

    Hey guys,

    Recently bought 100 rounds of "Ranger Bonded 9mm 124gr+P JHP" from SGAmmo.com

    When it arrived to my house, I was dismayed that it was December 2006 production ammo, which is really crappy stuff. There's almost no HP cavity to speak of. Winchester realized this issue, and corrected the bullet design to have a deeper HP cavity as of late 2008/early 2009. Needless to say, I was expecting this 2008/2009 reliable ammo, not the unreliable, 5-year-old stuff that I received. The HP cavity is so shallow, it almost makes the bullet a FMJ (images attached).

    Not only had the ammo thus sat around for 5 years and have a major design flaw, when it arrived, the brass jackets on almost all the rounds were dirty and tarnished with a black, thick residue.

    Normally,SGAmmo.com is a very good company. I have purchased Ranger T-series and Gold Dots from them, all of which have been in new, excellent (and current production) condition. I have contacted him about returning the ammo, but until I hear back AVOID the RA9BA he is selling. It is junk, and should have been marked "ZRA9BA" with the "Z" designating "out of date/seconds" ammo.



    Images:
    Image Shack is being goofy...when the image loads, click on the "broken link" icon and it will pull up the shot in 640 x 800


    Tarnishing around case (not sure how well camera picked it up)




    More tarnishing, big black smudge. Not sure camera got it?




    Side angle of shallow, almost non-existent HP cavity





    Top-down shot of four random rounds, all showing differing serration, HP depths, and just general lack of HP cavity


    Just a warning for you guys!!!!

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Update:
    I just got off the phone with "Sam", one of the owners of SG Ammo, and he's going to exchange my defective rounds for Gold Dot 124gr +P (minus shipping to and from). Very, very reasonable and excellent customer service! I'll buy from him again, just not the RA9BA.

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    Yea there was a lot of "JUNK" come out of Winchester during the sell-out.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    From what I can see, there is nothing wrong with that ammo. Tarnishing of the jacket won't be noticed covered in blood and tissue.

    The cavity looks ok to me also, from the pic supplied. I had never heard of any issues with the ammo. But thanks for the advice.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Member Array mattwestm's Avatar
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    I've always been impressed with SGAmmo. I've ordered from them plenty of times and they are a good family owned business.

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    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Glockman -

    Compared to the newer Ranger Bonded, the pictured cavity on the 2006 ammo is about ~33% of the depth.
    I have done extensive research on the 2006 RA9BA, and it has had inconsistent and unreliable expansion. The newer 2008 ammo, has much better expansion.

    I don't really care about the tarnishing/corrosion from a cosmetic standpoint. Tarnishing happens when metal is exposed to trace H2S gas, which is acidic; corrosion occurs from contact with acids (from skin, sweat etc). Both processes damage metal. Thus the jacket is weakened/damaged and who knows how it will perform in the targer? Will there be core-jacket seperation? Who knows, but not knowing if there will be seperation kind of defeats the purpose of a bonded round, IMO!

    And I am NOT knocking SG Ammo - like I said, he's doing an exchange for Gold Dots. He is a good businessman, no doubt! Just a bad product from WInchester is all.

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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post

    I don't really care about the tarnishing/corrosion from a cosmetic standpoint. Tarnishing happens when metal is exposed to trace H2S gas, which is acidic; corrosion occurs from contact with acids (from skin, sweat etc). Both processes damage metal. Thus the jacket is weakened/damaged and who knows how it will perform in the targer? Will there be core-jacket seperation? Who knows, but not knowing if there will be seperation kind of defeats the purpose of a bonded round, IMO!
    You are over thinking a non-existant problem. Any "damage" from handling ammo is more perceived than real. Same deal with H2S exposure. It would have to be very high concentrations for quite long times to have any measurable effects. Ammo isn't near as fragile as many on the Internet would have us believe.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    Glockman -

    Compared to the newer Ranger Bonded, the pictured cavity on the 2006 ammo is about ~33% of the depth.
    I have done extensive research on the 2006 RA9BA, and it has had inconsistent and unreliable expansion. The newer 2008 ammo, has much better expansion.

    I don't really care about the tarnishing/corrosion from a cosmetic standpoint. Tarnishing happens when metal is exposed to trace H2S gas, which is acidic; corrosion occurs from contact with acids (from skin, sweat etc). Both processes damage metal. Thus the jacket is weakened/damaged and who knows how it will perform in the targer? Will there be core-jacket seperation? Who knows, but not knowing if there will be seperation kind of defeats the purpose of a bonded round, IMO!

    And I am NOT knocking SG Ammo - like I said, he's doing an exchange for Gold Dots. He is a good businessman, no doubt! Just a bad product from WInchester is all.
    I guess I dont keep up with things like that much. I use bullets that dont rely on the perfect conditions to work properly scenario. But thats me. But with these, if the first doesnt work, keep sending them until they do...after all, isnt that the game plan and idea for the carrying of a hi cap sub caliber in the first place?
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Glockman-

    You do raise a valid point there. However, I don't carry a hi-cap 9mm. I currently carry the LC9, due to my slim body type it's hard for me to comfortably conceal a larger gun such as my M&P9 (and I don't like Glocks due to lack of manual thumb safety, no offense! First gun I ever shot was a 1911 and I just am more comfortable and confident with a thumb safety). That said, I am limited to 7 in the mag, plus 1 in the chamber. In a defense situation, I need every round to perform reliably. That's why I keep my 7 round mags loaded with 4x Ranger T-series +P (because they are good rounds) and will be using the other 3 + 1 for Gold Dots.

    One other thing, Glockman, is that the new RA9BA ammo has a much more aggressive hollow point, similar to Gold Dots.

    I do agree, though, that with a higher cap gun, such as my 17+1 MP9, I could probably get away with using FMJ and still be able to do some damage!



    Majorik-

    You are probably right. But part of CCW is having confidence in your abilities, and in your weapon and ammo. I just don't feel comfortable carrying a round with a very shallow HP cavity and corrosion evident on the outside. I'm sure it functions fine, but for peace of mind, I am saving it for "SHTF" ammo. :)

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    MP9NewMexico, I hear ya, just havin a little fun with the hi cap thing.
    But on a more serious note, I really am not up on the designer bullet thing anymore. I figure an HP is an HP, and tend to think people worry too much about such things, and all the while make ammo companies filthy rich. For me, it's either a stop immediatly or keep the lead injection coming until they do.

    But still, thanks for the heads up.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Glockman,

    I definitely agree with you there. Companies have capitalized on the $1/round "personal defense" ammo. Which is why I buy LE HP ammo from SG Ammo, and pay $0.50 per round, which isn't that much more than buying from Wally World!

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    Member Array Bigpoppa48's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info but I have never had a problem with my orders from SGAmmo. I have ordered from them several times and more than likely order from them again.

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    38
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    Buy the PDX1 stuff

    The PDX1's are more expensive but they are current design. You are taking your chances of getting old designs when you buy the Ranger Bonded stuff. There have been too many design changes to where you don't know what you'll get.
    Gen 4 G26, Gen 4 G23, 442-1

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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 38 View Post
    The PDX1's are more expensive but they are current design. You are taking your chances of getting old designs when you buy the Ranger Bonded stuff. There have been too many design changes to where you don't know what you'll get.
    Ah, more of the "bullet of the month" nonsense. Actually, the designs are virtually identical. I seriously doubt there is one bit of terminal difference when the two bullets hit flesh. The MAJOR difference between the two is that the Ranger-series is sold in 50 round boxes for less than half the per-piece rate of the 20 round box of PDX-1. IOW, it's all about marketing.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    If you're not comfortable without a thumb safety maybe you need to look within and work on your trigger discipline. Sounds like you're not comfortable with yourself. Oh and that ammo is fine. No need to obsess over it.

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