Law enforcement use of HST-40Caliber 155gr.

This is a discussion on Law enforcement use of HST-40Caliber 155gr. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by AZ Hawk I have heard on the internet that the Border Patrol uses the 155gr Win Ranger, but I did hear that ...

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Thread: Law enforcement use of HST-40Caliber 155gr.

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    I have heard on the internet that the Border Patrol uses the 155gr Win Ranger, but I did hear that on the internet...

    P.S. I'd suggest reviewing this thread over at M4Carbine.net: Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums
    FWIW: AS a Range Safety Officer for the Cochise County AZ Range, we have the Border Patrol using our range several times a month for qualifying their officers. The only thing I have seen them use is the 180 Gr HP. I have seen several different manufactures within the last couple of years but It has been the 180 HP loading.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Very helpful thread. Thank you for posting this.

    One thing that puzzles me. I'm looking at the Federal Law Enforcement HST poster and for the .40S&W, the 165 gr. did better than the 180 gr. when it came to steel.

    Penetration

    165 Gr. - 17.0" 180Gr. - 11.0"

    Expansion

    165 Gr. - 0.49" 180 Gr. - 0.45"

    Retained Weight

    165 Gr. - 164 180 Gr. - 124

    In all of the other mediums, the 180 did as well if not better than the 165 but the 165 did better in steel.

    Why?

    Any suggestions?
    Aceoky likes this.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    "[ but the capacity of most handguns chambered in .45 ACP is less than ideal in a LE setting.]"

    I know a few counties that use the G21 in FL, For sure one uses 200gr Golden Sabers ; )
    H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


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  5. #19
    New Member Array tweensy's Avatar
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    funny how the 185 gr .45 jhp, at 950 fps never amounted to a thing, but the .40 short and weak's 180 gr jhp, at 950 fps, is such a wonderful performer, aint it?

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Very helpful thread. Thank you for posting this.

    One thing that puzzles me. I'm looking at the Federal Law Enforcement HST poster and for the .40S&W, the 165 gr. did better than the 180 gr. when it came to steel.

    Penetration

    165 Gr. - 17.0" 180Gr. - 11.0"

    Expansion

    165 Gr. - 0.49" 180 Gr. - 0.45"

    Retained Weight

    165 Gr. - 164 180 Gr. - 124

    In all of the other mediums, the 180 did as well if not better than the 165 but the 165 did better in steel.

    Why?

    Any suggestions?
    Couple of points to make:

    1. You're looking at one and only one test shot of each bullet, and therefore it is not indicative of a trend. The next shot of each could do exactly the opposite, we just don't have enough information to say one way or the other.

    2. No JHP performs all that well through steel. It appears that the 180 gr. shred it's jacket, but the HST is NOT a bonded bullet, and the result is not that much of a surprise.

    3. Go through the links on this page: LE - Wound Ballistics to find more examples of HST/Gold Dot ballistic testing.

    Off topic and just out of curiosity: Have you shot the 165 gr. and 180 gr. HST and compared them back to back? From personal experience I can tell you that the 165 gr. load is difficult to control when firing rapid twos, threes, fours, etc., especially when compared to the 180 gr. which acts more like a 230 gr. .45 ACP load.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beans View Post
    FWIW: AS a Range Safety Officer for the Cochise County AZ Range, we have the Border Patrol using our range several times a month for qualifying their officers. The only thing I have seen them use is the 180 Gr HP. I have seen several different manufactures within the last couple of years but It has been the 180 HP loading.
    Thanks for the info. I've been waiting for someone to tell me otherwise for quite awhile!
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    Off topic and just out of curiosity: Have you shot the 165 gr. and 180 gr. HST and compared them back to back? From personal experience I can tell you that the 165 gr. load is difficult to control when firing rapid twos, threes, fours, etc., especially when compared to the 180 gr. which acts more like a 230 gr. .45 ACP load.
    Thanks for the suggestions, they are much appreciated.

    To answer your question, no, I have not shot these bullets.

    I have Hydro-Shoks right now and the last time I tried to buy them, the guy at the counter told me that he didn't have any in stock. He said that they were going to be discontinued and tried to sell me something else (I don't remember what he recommended). I didn't trust him b/c info at gun store counters isn't always the most accurate.

    I posted a question on this forum asking about the incident and was told that Hydro Shoks are old technology but that they haven't had any trouble getting them. I didn't freak out or anything because I reasoned that if Hydro Shoks were effective and incapacitated/killed BGs in the past, then why would they all of a sudden stop just because they are "old" technology?

    At the same time, however, I decided to start to look for a new bullet to stock up on if Hydro Shoks are "old" tech and going to be hard for me to acquire. I've asked a few trusted people I know about what to get and what I should do, etc. After doing some more research, I want to try out 180 Gr. Gold Dots but haven't bought any yet. My finances are running tight so I don't have the money to try 165 & 180 side-by-side.

    Before I read this thread, I was considering 165 & 180 grain but I was already leaning towards the 180 grain. After reading this post, I think I'm going to go with the 180.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions, they are much appreciated.

    To answer your question, no, I have not shot these bullets.

    I have Hydro-Shoks right now and the last time I tried to buy them, the guy at the counter told me that he didn't have any in stock. He said that they were going to be discontinued and tried to sell me something else (I don't remember what he recommended). I didn't trust him b/c info at gun store counters isn't always the most accurate.

    I posted a question on this forum asking about the incident and was told that Hydro Shoks are old technology but that they haven't had any trouble getting them. I didn't freak out or anything because I reasoned that if Hydro Shoks were effective and incapacitated/killed BGs in the past, then why would they all of a sudden stop just because they are "old" technology?

    At the same time, however, I decided to start to look for a new bullet to stock up on if Hydro Shoks are "old" tech and going to be hard for me to acquire. I've asked a few trusted people I know about what to get and what I should do, etc. After doing some more research, I want to try out 180 Gr. Gold Dots but haven't bought any yet. My finances are running tight so I don't have the money to try 165 & 180 side-by-side.

    Before I read this thread, I was considering 165 & 180 grain but I was already leaning towards the 180 grain. After reading this post, I think I'm going to go with the 180.
    180 gr. Speer Gold Dot is a proven street performer, so that is an excellent carry choice.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  10. #24
    Member Array 9mmPro's Avatar
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    sorry to revive a dead thread i am curious about HST 155 gr in my .40 cal walther p99 i prefer the 155 over the 180 reason is i can get more distance and hits harder at a longer distance then the 180 , my only concern is will the 180 hit the same at 25 yards as it will at 50 yards? my main use is for personal defense i feel better with the 155 gr then i do the 180 i dont know why my gut is telling me to go with the 155 not the 180?
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  11. #25
    Member Array lyodbraun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mmPro View Post
    sorry to revive a dead thread i am curious about HST 155 gr in my .40 cal walther p99 i prefer the 155 over the 180 reason is i can get more distance and hits harder at a longer distance then the 180 , my only concern is will the 180 hit the same at 25 yards as it will at 50 yards? my main use is for personal defense i feel better with the 155 gr then i do the 180 i dont know why my gut is telling me to go with the 155 not the 180?
    Both i think will hurt and do the job....:D

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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