Faster bullet, or more energy?

This is a discussion on Faster bullet, or more energy? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just doing a little research on some .45ACP/Auto ammunition, and I found some Federal Hydra-Shoks that look/sound really impressive. A 165gr JHP with 1014fps at ...

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    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Faster bullet, or more energy?

    Just doing a little research on some .45ACP/Auto ammunition, and I found some Federal Hydra-Shoks that look/sound really impressive.

    A 165gr JHP with 1014fps at 25yd, 377ftlb at 25yd.

    Also, A 230gr JHP with 882fps at 25yd, 397frlb at 25 yd.

    My question is which would be better? I don't see 20ftlb making THAT much of a difference. (Also, to be fair, when I 'hear' ftlbs, I think torque) But, still, faster lighter bullet, or slower 'harder' bullet?

    I know the heavier bullet will have more recoil than the lighter, but, I don't see it being THAT different. Other than having the weight of a .32 more than the other.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

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    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    I wouldn't want to get hit by either.

    Try them both, see what you shoot better - decision made.

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    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    I wouldn't want to get hit by either.

    Try them both, see what you shoot better - decision made.
    That was really more of a general question- I tend to favor the PMC Starfires as my SD rounds.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

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    All I know, from experience,is the 230 grain,when applied liberally,will cure what ails ya',I don't think the fps is going to matter much if you put it where it needs to go.

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    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolvingMag View Post
    Just doing a little research on some .45ACP/Auto ammunition, and I found some Federal Hydra-Shoks that look/sound really impressive.

    A 165gr JHP with 1014fps at 25yd, 377ftlb at 25yd.

    Also, A 230gr JHP with 882fps at 25yd, 397frlb at 25 yd.

    My question is which would be better? I don't see 20ftlb making THAT much of a difference. (Also, to be fair, when I 'hear' ftlbs, I think torque) But, still, faster lighter bullet, or slower 'harder' bullet?

    I know the heavier bullet will have more recoil than the lighter, but, I don't see it being THAT different. Other than having the weight of a .32 more than the other.
    I'd suggest reading through this: Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums
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    Distinguished Member Array 4my son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Try them both, see what you shoot better - decision made.
    I agree,
    Fan of the 230gr standard pressure rounds here. Gold Dots to be specific. nice soft shooting round. the lighter bullets with or without +P are too snappy for me. There is no difference in the energy of the two rounds you mentioned. Until you are talking 20%-25% or more of a difference, it's a mute point. Just my $.02
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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    I always carry the round with the heavier bullet. 230 gr will always have better penetration than the 165 gr load.

    here is a video of Corbon Self Defense Ammo being fired into ballistic gelatin....note how the .45 165 gr round fragments and has poor penetration, while the 230 gr just cruises on through.
    Of special note to our Mousegunners here.....check out the penetration of the .380 90gr JHP....best I've ever seen, and my carry load in both my P-3AT and LCP I carry as BUGS.

    CORBON Self Defense JHP Product Demonstration Video - YouTube
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    RevolvingMag, do not buy into the faster lighter mythology. The only reason to go faster lighter is for trajectory issues. The lighter bullet is dependent on that velocity to penetrate and do it's work. Hence, energy is just defined in ballistics as the ability to do work.

    The heavier bullet, has more sectional density(ass behind it) and therefore more weight, and is not dependent on speed to penetrate.

    It is therefore important, and of absolute necassitty that lighter bullets fire by smaller calibers are driven at higher velocities.

    The 45acp was developed to come close to duplicating the 45 Colt in ballistics. The 45Colt was and still is a cartridge that is known for putting men asleep for eternity without all the magnumitis drama.

    So is the 45acp . Don't mess with a proven formula. Keep it heavy, keep it deadly.
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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    With large calibers, Iv'e always preferred "large weight" to take advantage of it. Just my experience, but it's the old " flying ashtray adage", What hurts worse..a ball peen hammer going fast, or a sledge hammer just a little slower? I don't know for sure, and I don't really want to either! I imagine the sledge will knock me down quicker, but maybe not deader..
    I believe the goal is to stop the threat, not kill it, so give me the heavier bullet. If they die...sucks to be them!
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    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    RevolvingMag, do not buy into the faster lighter mythology. The only reason to go faster lighter is for trajectory issues. The lighter bullet is dependent on that velocity to penetrate and do it's work. Hence, energy is just defined in ballistics as the ability to do work.

    The heavier bullet, has more sectional density(ass behind it) and therefore more weight, and is not dependent on speed to penetrate.

    It is therefore important, and of absolute necassitty that lighter bullets fire by smaller calibers are driven at higher velocities.

    The 45acp was developed to come close to duplicating the 45 Colt in ballistics. The 45Colt was and still is a cartridge that is known for putting men asleep for eternity without all the magnumitis drama.

    So is the 45acp . Don't mess with a proven formula. Keep it heavy, keep it deadly.
    That's pretty much how I figured it. I just wanted some more insight into it. Mainly what I was concerned with was the difference between them when it comes to over penetration. I figure the heavier round would be more likely to go all the way through, where the lighter would stop.

    By most of the accounts I've heard about a .357mag is that it is more likely to over penetrate. One of the main theories I've heard behind this is that it's a 'lighter' bullet that travels fast. Versus something that is heavier and slower.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    That's not exactly true re the .357 Mag. A heavier 158gr is more likely to over penetrate than a 125gr in .357 Mag.
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    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    That's not exactly true re the .357 Mag. A heavier 158gr is more likely to over penetrate than a 125gr in .357 Mag.
    All I really know there is what I've heard- luckily I've never had to test the theory.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    RMag, the theory with the 357 was the bullet, 125 jsp, would expend all energy in the body, which it did, leading up to all the " hydrostatic shock" argument and debate of the late 80s and early 90s.

    Over penetration is a very real possibility, but I think much over rated, as far as the hitting the innocent bystander is concerned.

    The 357 mag in the 125 weight loading is a good example of velocity making up for weight and caliber. But it had it's draw backs.
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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    BTW, Glockman10mm, Doesn't that 10mm round take care of BOTH categories? If it does'nt, I don't know what would in a pistol round!
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    The 10mm is probably over kill in it's original loadings for people. For people it is probably the only bullet I would reduce in weight, probably to 155 grns. Even the 135 grns at 1600 fps would be create a real internal mess.
    Since sectional density always favors the smaller caliber in similar weights, the 10mm would be ok lighter.

    I'm not sure anything is for certain, given so many variables that may possibly be encountered, but I think by adhering to certain rules we can create a much desired consistancy in performance.
    TonyDTrigger likes this.
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