critical defense/ short barrels - Page 3

critical defense/ short barrels

This is a discussion on critical defense/ short barrels within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; CD isn't a marketing gimmick. It's a simple change that has proven effective for hunting/self defense. Not only that, the cost for CD ammo compared ...

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 77
Like Tree32Likes

Thread: critical defense/ short barrels

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    757
    CD isn't a marketing gimmick. It's a simple change that has proven effective for hunting/self defense. Not only that, the cost for CD ammo compared to other standard hollow point rounds in the calibers is comparable.

    CD rounds are just doing the same thing in the same manner of the often recommended Federal Hydra-Shock rounds.

    No offense, but the CD rounds don't fit the boutique ammo label. They don't have any actual gimmick to them, and the cost is reasonable compared to their traditional counterpart. They are just another consistent round sold by one of the bigger ammunition makers.


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    CD isn't a marketing gimmick. It's a simple change that has proven effective for hunting/self defense. Not only that, the cost for CD ammo compared to other standard hollow point rounds in the calibers is comparable.
    The cheapest I found CD in 9mm is $20 per 25.

    For the sake of comparison, you can get .40 S&W 180 gr. Federal HST at $19 per 50. You can also get the Win PDX1 180 gr. FBI/LE version at $17 per 50.

    Also, my 9mm carry load is the 124 gr. +P Speer Gold Dot, and you can get that at $25 per 50. It seems quite expensive for a lightweight, unproven round.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by a__l__a__n View Post
    The FBI likes some of the "Critical Crap" ammo. So do lots of police departments. There's data and field experience behind their opinions. They've shot a lot more BG than most of us. I've shot zero. So I'll listen to those who have experience.

    It's not just manufacturers hyping an idea for profit.
    The FBI doesn't like this "Critical Crap" ammo. They didn't even consider it when searching for an ideal 180 gr. 40 S&W load. (Note 180 gr.)

    Currently, the FBI carries the Winchester Q4369 180 gr. load, which is basically the PDX1 in brass cases.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  4. #34
    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    New Mexico/Colorado/Texas
    Posts
    318
    The FBI did its ammo testing before CD came on the market, or so I believe?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    The FBI did its ammo testing before CD came on the market, or so I believe?
    The CD load is an FTX bullet with a tip in the cavity. The FTX, even if considered, has never passed testing before, and I'm sure the FBI doesn't consider a "flex tip" to be a major improvement in bullet design.

    Then there's this:

    According to Steve Johnson, Hornady Marketing Communications Manager, the Critical Defense line of handgun ammunition:

    "...is not designed to shoot through glass, is not designed to shoot through a car door, and is not designed to shoot through a wall. If you have to shoot through something like that in a personal defense situation you're probably going to jail."

    -- NRA's American Guardian TV

    FirearmsTactical.com: TacticalBriefs, April 2006

    If the above isn't an automatic disqualifier, I'm not sure what is.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  6. #36
    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    New Mexico/Colorado/Texas
    Posts
    318
    Check out this link:
    http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...eakthrough.pdf

    CD wasn't even introduced until 2009, one year AFTER the FBI awarded Winchester the $54 million FBI, DOJ, ATF contract. So how could the FBI possibly have 'disliked' the 'critical crap' during its tests, when 'critical crap' wasn't even available during the time of tests?

    Finally, this link, provided in the article you linked to (which is actually from July 2010, not April 2006), was conducted in 2008, also before CD came to market. Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    Check out this link:
    http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...eakthrough.pdf

    CD wasn't even introduced until 2009, one year AFTER the FBI awarded Winchester the $54 million FBI, DOJ, ATF contract. So how could the FBI possibly have 'disliked' the 'critical crap' during its tests, when 'critical crap' wasn't even available during the time of tests?

    Finally, this link, provided in the article you linked to (which is actually from July 2010, not April 2006), was conducted in 2008, also before CD came to market. Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums
    Yes, the CD is an FTX bullet with a tip in it. It also performs exactly the same as the FTX bullet. They never needed to test the CD itself...

    Also, the CD has potential major feeding issues if the tip extends out of the cavity too far. The tips are not glued in, and I've actually experienced a failure like this in an XD45.

    I only called it "Critical Crap" because you called it "Critical Crap."

    That link was ORIGINALLY made in 2008, yes. However, it was last UPDATED 10/11/2011, which was three weeks ago...
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,505
    It doesn't matter who says what. Critical Crap is design that was marketed for the civilian personal defense market and not LE. I'll still use ammo with penetrating qualities.

    Good ole ball ammo. Been filling up vacant lots with corpses since gunpowder was used in this country.
    With all the good conventional HP ammo out there packaged to sell 50 rounds at a much better price, what kind of person would get " sucked in " to buying a 20 round box for almost a dollar a round?
    bmcgilvray and Majorlk like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    With all the good conventional HP ammo out there packaged to sell 50 rounds at a much better price, what kind of person would get " sucked in " to buying a 20 round box for almost a dollar a round?
    Good point, and it especially holds true if you're from the camp which believes in firing a minimum of 250 to 500 rounds to prove the reliability of your chosen carry load before you can carry the weapon like myself.

    Also, Speer Gold Dot has been around since the mid '90s and is definitely the most proven hollow point design in production. You can buy Gold Dot for $0.50 a round whereas Critical Defense costs $0.80 per round. It's also bonded, which means that jacket/core separation is virtually impossible.

    I guess I just don't understand why anyone would choose Critical Defense other than slick marketing and a cool name as there other equal and better loads out there which cost much less...
    Majorlk likes this.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  10. #40
    RKM
    RKM is offline
    Distinguished Member Array RKM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,883
    I remember watching a video somehwere that Hornady designed the CD ammo NOT to pass FBI standards. I think their reasoning behind this was because 12" of penetration would be over penetration on a typically human body (with a shot placed directly in the front to back).

    I carried CD in .380 when I was carrying my Kel-Tec. I'm not really sure why. I thought I saw a good review on it before. Or it was a quick and easy grab at the store.

    Carry DPX in my G30SF. Though it's sadly only available in 185gr (I'd love a 230gr version if it was available), I rarely see a test where this round fails to penetrate and expand as desgined. Only downside is it can be hard to find and expensive.

    Other rounds I wouldn't mind carrying would be Golden Saber 230gr and Federal HST 230gr +P. I caried Ranger-T for awhile, but 90% of tests I see using this round, no matter what caliber, perform rather poorly, unless shot into bare gel. Most bad guys where clothes.... most. Shot into bare gel this round absolutely rocks. Any kind of barrier, it's just an expensive FMJ.

    Pocket carrying a .38 now. Currently carrying Remington lead nose hollow points, 125gr +P. Again, just a quick grab off the shelf until I can decided on what I really want to carry. Will probably end up being standard pressure Buffalo Bore 158gr LNSWCHP or whatever they're called.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Just to prove it isn't some "magic" cartridge, here is a picture of three .38 Special bullets:

    From left to right: Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P, CorBon DPX 110 gr. +P and Hornady FTX "Critical Defense" 110 gr. +P

    Top bullets were fired into bare gelatin. Bottom bullets were fired into four layers of denim.

    38GDvsDPXHornady (1).jpg
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  12. #42
    RKM
    RKM is offline
    Distinguished Member Array RKM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,883
    DPX, getting it done :) Although I'm half tempted to start carrying 230gr Gold Dots just because they're cheaper. .38+P 135gr gold Dots are harder to find. Or else I'd probably use Gold Dots exclusively.

  13. #43
    Member Array Buckj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    273
    To be honest...i would not want to be shot with any make/kind of bullet...

  14. #44
    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    New Mexico/Colorado/Texas
    Posts
    318
    RKM -

    Ammunition To Go : 20rds - 38 Special Speer Gold Dot 125gr. +P HP Ammo [23720] - $21.95

    Good reliable company, with outstanding service. I buy from them quite frequently.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    va.
    Posts
    696
    I really don't care how much it costs per round. If ONE round saves my life, it's worth it to me! My line of thought is that the CD round will function more like a ball round since it's nose is filled( more reliable chambering ) and act like a hollow point downrange. I was asking originally as to it's effectivness in a short barrled pistol/revolver.
    As to the claim of " newer, better " is a sales gimmick... Civil War vets would attest to the fact that the " newer, better " conical bullet was better than the old ball round holds some truth.
    I agree that some things that are marketed are pure junk...just not sure about this
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

.454 casull hornady critical defense
,
critical defense short barrel
,

critical defense vs zombie max

,
difference between critical defense and zombie
,
hornady critical defense short barrel
,

hornady critical defense vs zombie

,

hornady critical defense vs zombie max

,
hornady zombie ammo vs critical defense
,

hornady zombie max vs critical defense

,

hornady zombie vs critical defense

,
tnoutdoors 9
,

zombie max vs critical defense

Click on a term to search for related topics.