SD Ammo, SD, and what it means and why

This is a discussion on SD Ammo, SD, and what it means and why within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, given that this thread is aimed at newbies, and with the understanding that this is a complex subject that reasonable people can disagree on: ...

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 83
Like Tree16Likes

Thread: SD Ammo, SD, and what it means and why

  1. #61
    Member Array Ishmael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ohio Valley
    Posts
    231
    So, given that this thread is aimed at newbies, and with the understanding that this is a complex subject that reasonable people can disagree on: Glockman, can you offer some specifications of cartridges that would follow from your recommendations, in say .38, .357, and .40? I'm not entirely sure what "heavy" or "light" means in the abstract. (I mean, I know what it refers to, but how light can it be and still be "heavy" in the terms you are recommending?)

    I really enjoyed this discussion, although I need more basic background reading to be able to understand it fully. Maybe a "Ballistics for Poets" book? (The reference is to a style of physics class aimed at the person who needs general understanding of the principles but not deep, technical problem-solving experience. Are there any books like that on the subject? I mean as a starting point?)

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #62
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,703
    In 38 spl, I like the 158 weight bullets. In 9mm, I prefer the heavier 147 weight in +p. For 40 S&W I like the 180 or 200 weights.

    The 357 magnum is an entirely different animal. It has enough case capacity to give high enough velocities to a lighter weight bullet. With the 125 weights, they have just enough density to work extremely well. In my opinion however, I would go with a 145 weight loading for any revolver with a 3 inch tube or longer, and 158 to 180 for anything shorter than 3 inches.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    In 9mm, I prefer the heavier 147 weight in +p.
    Which in some tests has proven to penetrate LESS than the standard pressure 147gr. 11" for +P vs 13" for standard.

  5. #64
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,703
    Am I being stalked? LMAO!

    Actually Ishmael, in handguns like revolvers that will reliably fire them, a jacketed hollowpoint is not really even needed. A heavy LSWC will do a great job while cutting a full caliber hole without as much of a deflection issue.
    bmcgilvray likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  6. #65
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Which in some tests has proven to penetrate LESS than the standard pressure 147gr. 11" for +P vs 13" for standard.
    Wasn't that some random online newspaper jug test?
    glockman10mm likes this.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    Wasn't that some random online newspaper jug test?
    I said in SOME tests. You cannot discount EVERY test just because you don't agree with the result. I found it fascinating that under the same conditions in the same medium, the +P 147gr round expanded more but penetrated less than the standard pressure round. May mean nothing, but it did happen.
    Last edited by smolck; October 21st, 2011 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I said in SOME tests. You cannot discount EVERY test just because you don't agree with the result. I found it fascinating that under the same conditions in the same medium, the +P 147gr round expanded more but penetrated less than the standard pressure round. May mean nothing, but it did happen.



    Once again, you are incapable of being adult and can only hurl insults.
    Shooting a bullet into jugs of water/newspaper mix isn't testing anything other than what a bullet would do when fired into water/newspaper mix. You can make the same argument against gelatin, but at least ballistic gelatin is 'like' human tissue, and real world shootings have shown that a bullet which doesn't hit any bones will act pretty much like it does in ballistic gelatin. If it didn't, they would have stopped using ballistic gelatin as a testing medium a very long time ago.

    Hell, how do you even know that the water/newspaper mix is anywhere near the same ratio of water and newspaper from test to test?

    Finally, why would I care about the result so much that I'd "discount every test because [I] don't agree with the result?" I don't carry either of the 147 gr. HST loads, so I could really care less what the results were, even more so when it's unscientific "bunk" testing.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    You can make the same argument against gelatin, but at least ballistic gelatin is 'like' human tissue, and real world shootings have shown that a bullet which doesn't hit any bones will act pretty much like it does in ballistic gelatin.
    Well, I guess my memory isn't what it used to be. Seems the tests I was referring to are in fact ballistic gel. I suppose these tests are meaningless too. But alas, the +p load doesn't go as deep IN THIS PARTICULAR test.




  10. #69
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Well, I guess my memory isn't what it used to be. Seems the tests I was referring to are in fact ballistic gel. I suppose these tests are meaningless too. But alas, the +p load doesn't go as deep IN THIS PARTICULAR test.
    I'm lovin' how you constantly accuse everyone around you of being "hostile," then post, "I suppose these tests are meaningless too."

    Anyways, so we have exactly one known test shot of the +P 147 gr. HST, and it penetrated less than the 147 gr. HST by two inches.

    Two observations: (1) we've seen this before with +P and standard pressure 124 gr. HST loads, where the standard pressure bullet penetrates more than the +P bullet.

    HST 124/124 +P: http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

    (2) The +P bullet expanded 0.04" wider than the standard pressure bullet, and the wider a bullet expands, the more resistance it faces. The more resistance it faces, the less it penetrates. I don't believe that this extra expansion would cause the 2.0" difference in penetration, however.

    And just for the record, one example does not equal a trend.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,285
    That doesn't look like standard gel; a bit too opaque. I also notice he keeps calling it "this particular media".

    But hey...congratulations. After enough searching, you found one single test to bear out your perceptions.

    Good for you.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    And just for the record, one example does not equal a trend.
    Nowhere did I state this was gospel. Merely food for thought.

  13. #72
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,031
    Lord I am glad I just use ball ammo in everything this is enough to make your head hurt.
    OD*, bmcgilvray and wmhawth like this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Valley of the Sun, AZ
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Nowhere did I state this was gospel. Merely food for thought.
    Yet you keep saying stuff like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Which in some tests has proven to penetrate LESS than the standard pressure 147gr. 11" for +P vs 13" for standard.
    If I didn't know any better, I'd say you're pretty sure that will continue to repeat itself...
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  15. #74
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,980
    It sure would be better to quit reading the tests and go shoot.
    glockman10mm and wmhawth like this.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  16. #75
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,703
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    It sure would be better to quit reading the tests and go shoot.
    Ain't it funny what you can learn from practical application of theories? Bryan, reckon shooting a few critters taught ya somethin not found in the lab eh, amigo?
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

ammo sd
,
best 45 sd ammo
,

sd ammo

,
sd ammo definition
,
sd ammo.com
,

sd ammunition

,
sd round
,
what does sd ammo mean
,
what is an sd round
,

what is sd ammo

,
what is sd ammunition
,
what is sd/hd ammo
Click on a term to search for related topics.