Most physicians knowledgeable in wound trauma believe that adequate penetration depth is the most important single property in handgun ammunition. The appropriate value for minimum penetration depth has generally been assumed to be 12 inches ever since the first FBI wound ballistics meeting in 1987. Unfortunately, this assumption has often been interpreted very simplistically (i.e., 12.1 Inches of penetration is good, but 11.9 inches of penetration is no good), but the real situation is more complicated. The problem is the possibility that the bullet will require an unusually large penetration to reach vital structures well inside the body. This can occur when the bullet must traverse non-critical tissue; e.g., the extended arm of an assailant aiming his handgun, and/or an unusual bullet path angle in the torso, and/or an unusually fat or beefy individual. The probability of needing this extra penetration is a judgment call, but most people believe it is a significant factor and much more important than the relatively modest increase in expanded diameter achieved by reducing penetration depth (e.g., approximately 30% increase in expanded bullet diameter is achieved by designing to an 8 inch penetration depth rather than 12 inches). This is the reason the professional wound ballistics community specified the 12 inch minimum penetration even though they are well aware that an 8 inch penetration is usually adequate. The suggested specification values for mean penetration depth are greater than 12.5 inches and less than 14.0 inches. Even at the limit of minimum value of this range (12.5 inches) and the limiting value of standard deviation (0.6) in Section 6.1.1, about 80% of the penetration will be greater than 12 inches and essentially all will be greater than 11 inches. This bare gelatin test provides a lower limit on penetration because most shootings will involve at least some clothing; slightly less expansion and slightly deeper penetration can be expected in typical service use.
If all else is equal in ballistics, I put more weight on the penetration than diameter. Most of the time there's a bigger penetration difference than diameter.Quote:
It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inchoes of soft body tissue at minimum...
while I normally carry 147gr standard pressure, my local GS had a sale on 124gr +P Golden Sabers....I think I'm good to go after watching both these vids.
SLOW MOTION 9x19mm Luger Remington 147gr Golden Saber impacting ballistic gelatin - YouTube
9x19mm Luger Remington 124gr +P Golden Saber impacting 20% ballistic gelatin - YouTube
We all need to agree to only use handgun caliber's for deer season so we can test the effectiveness of these rounds. Pick a weight and manufacturer and report back. It'll be like our very own goat shoot, except it's more sporting.
I am a semi-retired engineer, who has done a lot of "research" on different susjects for various projects.
While the "stopping power" graphs frm Handloads.com com are a guide, they don't tell the whole story.
For instance, a seemingly good load, with an epanding bullet has a lot lower one shot stop than another, yet the velocity and bullets are very close to each other.
Another caviet: The 38 special data with a 158 round nose lead, while it generally agreed is something you wouldn't carry, has the data from a 2" barrel showing better "stopping power" than that of a 4" barrel. The 4" velocity is higher, so higher ft/pounds should equal higher stoping power, but not here... A possible explanation is the 2' is usually deployed at very short distances, and maybe, just maybe, bullet placement was better. The difference was small, however, there was a difference.
What if the data includes some BG getting hit in the arm, then the next shot thru the COM and he is down. The data would not show a one shot stop.
Bullet placement is the key. 25 auto thru the ear beats a357 in the arm for stopping power.
I carry hydrashoks in all my carry guns. I think the fereral company is replacing it with a different name, but with simular bullets. Just a different name.
Silvertips wee originally designed NOT to penetrate. They wewre for air marshalls, court room LEOs, city police, and other who may have to us ethe weapon in a somewhat crowded area to put down a BG, without it going thru and endangering others. However, it was found that a BG with a down vest or heavy winter jacket would cause insufficient penitration..
Thats what the hydra-shok was designed for expansion, but the base of the bullet was made from harder alloy to carry on thry if it hits a bone, or heavy material garments. A the time, the FBI and other agencies were carrying HS ammo. The state of Florida is still isuing HS ammo, in various calibers, to their officers.
Again, anything in the right place is a one shot stop. Better ammo allows the shooter to be a little bit off the ideal spot and stop the BG, now.
If you doubt any load as being good, get a 1 gallon plastic jug, like the kind milk comes in, with a screw down lid. Fill with water and shoot it from10' away. Watch what it does to the jug. Even my lowly 380 causes the jug to explode.
I like pie
Oh, and I shoot whatever premium (non plus P) 9mm round I can find on sale. Then I buy a bunch of them.
+ 1 on the non +p..... So not needed in these calibers.. Better to go heavy IMO.. Oh' I said that already... Carry on. :boese51:
I like my Geco B A T Bullets in some on my guns. I also use 124 gr gold dots and 147 gr Winchester sub sonic rounds. They all go in one end and come out the other end of the gun.
I think you'll notice that all the bullet weights for a caliber penetrate close to the same amount.
I think this is because all the loads for defensive ammo for a given company are designed to meet the same performance standard.