Is 115 grain 9mm ammo for self-defense becoming obsolete?

This is a discussion on Is 115 grain 9mm ammo for self-defense becoming obsolete? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm Energy transfer, or so called " shocking power" is to a handgun what Zeus and Hercules are to Greek mythology. Gman, ...

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Thread: Is 115 grain 9mm ammo for self-defense becoming obsolete?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Energy transfer, or so called " shocking power" is to a handgun what Zeus and Hercules are to Greek mythology.
    Gman, I think you're having a blonde moment* or you're trying to slip one by us to see who's asleep...

    Zeus is Greek, Hercules is Roman.
    Jupiter is the Roman Zeus, and Heracles is the Greek Hercules.

    Kinda reminds me of a college drinking buddy as we headed to brekkers at 4 am... "a night without orange juice is like a night without the sun"...




    *what's left of the hair on top is blonde, so it's OK for me to crack blonde jokes
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Probably falling asleep. My hair is salt and pepper, lol.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    It's still gotta be better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick!

    I'm sure as hollowpoint technology progresses, bullet weight will be less of an issue.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  5. #19
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    I feel that if hollow point technology increases we'll be able to see heavier bullets that still perform without the need for speed. Of course the buying public is apparently geared for speed above all other considerations. So, we'll probably always have speedy ammo available.

    I don't happen to think that, in the past 30 years, hollow point technology has truly risen to new heights as much as we lead ourselves to believe ... or allow marketing and forums lead us to believe.

    The cost of "performance" ammo has certainly risen though.
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    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm asleep, but even in my sleep I still choose the heavy stuff because on average the heavier rounds tend to penetrate one to two inches deeper.... Deeper is better IMO. YMMV.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #21
    Member Array snakyjake's Avatar
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    I'm going to take some engineering guesses:

    1. 115gr is becoming more popular (Cor-bon DPX, Hornady Critical Defense, etc) because of improved bullet design. I think previous 115 generations did not perform too well because of older technology (i.e. bullet fragmentation). Maybe bullet fragmentation was not just because of weight (grain), but also because of thinner weaker material. Perhaps new designs bullets are less likely to fragment (all copper design). I have several selections of hollow points, and it is interesting to see the design differences.

    2. Guns with heavy springs have cycling problems with standard loads, therefore +p improved reliability. I think most non-US guns are designed around NATO standards, and need a bit more pressure than standard pressure. For hollow points in the U.S., that is going to mean +p.

    3. Some guns don't like 147 gr.

    4. Some guns manufacturers do not recommend +p.

    5. I think 124gr +p is the most popular because it is the median average, not at the extreme ends of the spectrum of choices. It works the best in more pistols.

    I also try to read up what other agencies are doing around the world (why limit ourselves). It sure seems like America is obsessed with diameter, others are more concerned about putting the maximum holes into a body (fire power).

    Jake

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    If I wanted to use 115gr round I'd use one of my .380's... Just sayin.
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    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    If I wanted to use 115gr round I'd use one of my .380's... Just sayin.
    Oh...

    Snap! You didn't...
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    The difference between the "experts" and ALL of us on forums is this, we have bias that shapes our judgement, true experts in their field are immune to that. So none of the banter in these recent threads about heavy versus light are anything more than each respondent (myself included) stating his or her opinion from their own biased point of view. Which in some ways is a good thing, because that means you are passionate and also that you have confidence in your chosen weapon.

    And I submit to you that a confident person with ANY premium ammo (that can hit where they aim) is going to do the best they possibly can if (God forbid) any of them did have to fire at a live person.

    Funny thing is, thugs and bad guys have been killing each other since the gun was invented. And I dare say that .50 Cent or the BTK killer searched the forums to find the best weight bullet. And furthermore, ever watch videos of real shootings? What do MOST (not all, but 95%)have in common? As soon as the gun comes out, the other dude starts running away. If you pull a 380 on me, I promise I won't stare at the barrel long enough to see it is a small hole, I'm hauling tail the other way.
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  12. #26
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    Deeper is not better, guys. That is a very bad misconception being spread by the ignorant. For centuries, we had complete penetration, and lack of stopping power. Just look at the miserable stopping percentage record of .38 lrn, .36 cap and ball, 9mm ball, .30 Carbine, etc, in spite of having completely exited the man being shot (with many rds, in many cases). Even the lightest, fastest SD jhps bullets fully penetrate big coons. That is 8" or more of penetration, which is plenty. The "arm first" argument is bs, since nobody aims at the arms. So arm hits are actually misses. Why blame the bullet for what is really just operator failure?

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanky View Post
    Deeper is not better, guys. That is a very bad misconception being spread by the ignorant. For centuries, we had complete penetration, and lack of stopping power. Just look at the miserable stopping percentage record of .38 lrn, .36 cap and ball, 9mm ball, .30 Carbine, etc, in spite of having completely exited the man being shot (with many rds, in many cases). Even the lightest, fastest SD jhps bullets fully penetrate big coons. That is 8" or more of penetration, which is plenty. The "arm first" argument is bs, since nobody aims at the arms. So arm hits are actually misses. Why blame the bullet for what is really just operator failure?
    Ever been in a real gunfight? You think you get to "choose" what you aim at from 0-15 feet when the enemy also has a gun and may be firing back at you? Apparently you are assuming that you do, and that is TRUE ignorance.

    Are you even being serious?
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Funny thing is, thugs and bad guys have been killing each other since the gun was invented. And I dare say that .50 Cent or the BTK killer searched the forums to find the best weight bullet. And furthermore, ever watch videos of real shootings? What do MOST (not all, but 95%)have in common? As soon as the gun comes out, the other dude starts running away. If you pull a 380 on me, I promise I won't stare at the barrel long enough to see it is a small hole, I'm hauling tail the other way.
    I agree with the vast majority of your post, but I'd like to point out one small variable that IMO was omitted from your last statement..... "YOU" I'm betting are not a criminal, or most likely to be some kind of nut-job, so how can you make an accurate judgement of just what some lowlife criminal wood, or wood not do when they see you gun.. I'm thinking due to their poor judgment, they seem like they just might be dumb enough to take the size of the gun into consideration. Just a thought.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    or most likely to be some kind of nut-job, so how can you make an accurate judgement of just what some lowlife criminal wood, or wood not do when they see you gun..
    I agree there are some that might not react to my firearm. But the criminals in the videos seem to run away. And I don't typically hang out where 300lb meth enraged freakos hang out. But even if my path did cross, I will shoot till the threat stops or I run out of bullets, regardless if they are 9mm or 454 casull.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    "[Deeper is not better, guys.]"
    That's what all little caliber guys say ; )
    H/D
    glockman10mm likes this.
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