I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense

This is a discussion on I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by All_Business Yea thats pretty much what I was getting at. I didn't know that until not too long ago. Ya really gotta ...

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Thread: I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Business View Post
    Yea thats pretty much what I was getting at. I didn't know that until not too long ago. Ya really gotta know your stuff when selecting a SD round. Hornady practically eliminates this problem with the flex tip on their ciritcal defense rounds.
    Not really.

    There are a LOT of examples of CD failing to expand after hitting barriers...contrary to Hornady's advertising hype.

    Don't believe the hype.

    And, unfortunately, when CD's do expand, they have a nasty tendency to underpenetrate due to their light weight.

    I do prefer to carry quality heavyweight JHP's in my .45's...but if I had to, I'd sooner carry ball than a gimmick round like Critical Defense.
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  3. #47
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    "I do prefer to carry quality heavyweight JHP's in my .45's..."

    This seems reasonable to me. If it opens then great and if it doesn't then it's still .45 with its signature weight behind it.

    I know very little about expanding 230 grain jacketed bullet designs. I handloaded perhaps one single box of 100 of them probably 20 years ago. Don't recall the manufacturer. They fed through the pistol fine. Some were probably fired in the .45 ACP revolvers. I'm thinking about sticking a toe back into occasional .45 automatic carry and would be willing to play with heavyweight JPHs.
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  4. #48
    Member Array afojc's Avatar
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    That"s why I have a .45 ACP on my night stand

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    There is something to be said for FMJ.

    I just got some JHPs in 9mm, a new brand I have not used before. That means I have to head to the range, and run a bunch of them through each of my pistols (and each mag for each pistol) to make sure they will feed properly. What an (expensive, time consuming) pain... With FMJ, you take the feed issues out of the equation.

    The issue with JHPs is not them failing to expand - the bigger issue is them working as advertised, and not penetrating enough to reach anything vital...due to an angled shot, or penetrating an extremity before reaching the torso, etc. The newer JHPs are better, but a FMJ will always penetrate more.

    Priority #1 is reliable feeding. #2 is shot placement. #3 is penetration. Expansion is a distant fourth.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  6. #50
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    There is something to be said for FMJ.

    I just got some JHPs in 9mm, a new brand I have not used before. That means I have to head to the range, and run a bunch of them through each of my pistols (and each mag for each pistol) to make sure they will feed properly. What an (expensive, time consuming) pain... With FMJ, you take the feed issues out of the equation.
    I don't understand this; why would you assume that a FMJ bullet would be any more reliable than a premium JHP? Hell, I've put 500 rounds of Federal HST 180 gr. through my G23 without a single problem. On the other hand, I have had a few FTF's with Rem. UMC FMJ.
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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Richard58's Avatar
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    Probably the two closest perfect sd rounds....357 sig and 40 S&W....comparison with other rounds states....but that's only one persons opinion. The 5.7 might be there with those two, but I have not tried it yet...but I don't think the public can get the body armor bullets at all from what I've read.

  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
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    After hearing my Dads WW2 stories, I have every confidence in the 230 grain .45 acp hardball.

  9. #53
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    There is something to be said of the type of fabrics used by the ChiCom's in the late '40's and early 50's during the war. They were likely heavy thick cotton duck canvas of a much denser weave and lots of thick wool, piled on in several layers.

    Today's high tech, modern fabrics provide outstanding insulation with much thinner and breathable fabrics. So I would say there would be a somewhat lesser effect on today's fabrics stopping projectiles as they did during WWII & Korean conflicts.

    But if you get up in the Dakota's, Montana, Minnesota where thick cow hide leather ranch coats with thick sheepskin liners are still pretty popular you might still have that effect of slowing or stopping slow moving fat bullets.
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  10. #54
    Member Array Magnum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    It is also well documented that the .45 "ball" rd will shoot thru two men's torsos, so to say it does not overpenetrate is to commit a huge error.

    Can you please point me in the direction of this well documented fact?
    I'd really like to see this documented fact too. I've only heard of one recorded instance where a .45 ball round over penetrated even one human torso. And that one round was picked up on the floor just 5 inches from where it exited the body.

  11. #55
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    I served on an Team with a Team Daddy (Team Sergeant) early on in my career that still too this day preaches carrying FMJ's for personal protection. The less "Rambo" ready you seem the better chances if faced with a jury.

    YMMV.
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  12. #56
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    " expansion is a fourth distance".-10thmtn

    That pretty much wraps it up as far as I'm concerned.
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  13. #57
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    Can any of the proponents of the FMJ as a defensive round name a single professional agency or organization that carries FMJ by choice?

    The military carries it because they are forced to do so by treaty.

    But can anyone identify a police force or federal agency that elects to carry FMJ over JHP in handguns?

    If not, do you think there might be a reason for that?
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  14. #58
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Can any of the proponents of the FMJ as a defensive round name a single professional agency or organization that carries FMJ by choice?

    The military carries it because they are forced to do so by treaty.

    But can anyone identify a police force or federal agency that elects to carry FMJ over JHP in handguns?

    If not, do you think there might be a reason for that?
    Over penetration would be my guess
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  15. #59
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    I don't understand this; why would you assume that a FMJ bullet would be any more reliable than a premium JHP? Hell, I've put 500 rounds of Federal HST 180 gr. through my G23 without a single problem. On the other hand, I have had a few FTF's with Rem. UMC FMJ.
    A round nose FMJ is probably as reliable a round (as far as feeding is concerned) as there is. All the .40 FMJ I have seen are a truncated cone design, with a blunt tip. Might explain your feed issue - don't know.

    That said - I personally experienced a feed issue with FMJ-RN, with one of my LCPs. That was an issue with the gun, however, and Ruger fixed it up.

    With a properly functioning pistol, FMJ-RN should feed reliably just about 99.99% of the time.

    ETA - I do use expanding bullets, but not because I think they are vastly superior to FMJ...somewhat better, yes. BUT, if I have run out of my usual rounds, and had to choose between an untested-in-my-gun JHP, or a RN-FMJ, I would go with the RN-FMJ due to feeding reliability.
    Last edited by 10thmtn; October 31st, 2011 at 12:12 PM.
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  16. #60
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Can any of the proponents of the FMJ as a defensive round name a single professional agency or organization that carries FMJ by choice?

    The military carries it because they are forced to do so by treaty.

    But can anyone identify a police force or federal agency that elects to carry FMJ over JHP in handguns?

    If not, do you think there might be a reason for that?
    I thought about using the FMJ back when I first got my Kimber Ultra, but I was mainly thinking of the flat nosed stuff and not the round nosed FMJ's... Slightly less penetration I would suspect, don't know for sure as I've not done any testing personally, but from my reading it should deliver more FPE and a tad less depth.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

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