I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense

I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense

This is a discussion on I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First of all I'm talking about the 45 ACP at this is the caliber I personalty prefer. After looking at, trying, shooting many different bullet ...

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Thread: I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense

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    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    I'm a believer in 45 ACP FMJ for defense

    First of all I'm talking about the 45 ACP at this is the caliber I personalty prefer. After looking at, trying, shooting many different bullet types I've settled on the The 230-grain bullet fired at around 850 fps FMJ for my 45. This is for several reasons. I do know there are many types or hollow points that have (supposedly) more stopping power and make a bigger hole at some point in their penetration, if all goes perfect. But here are my reasons, good or bad they work for me.

    A. The 1911 was and is designed for this round all others have to in some way copy the physical requirements to function. (same reason that I carry a full 5" 1911. Shorter barrels are usually a compromise in reliability. Not always I'm told but I'm yet to be convinced.)

    B. I like big bullets but like less velocity. Give me the feeling of the best threat factor and adequate penetration with less risk of a thru and thru shot that continues on to a secondary target.

    C. Living in the cold country half the time people are wearing very thick winter coats. FMJ rounds penetrate this type of clothing more reliably.

    D. Less expensive. I can practice with what I carry without a bank loan for ammunition. And everybody carries it in stock.

    I suppose if I was carrying a 38 SP or 9 MM I might feel differently, or not. Not sure about that.
    Dumbledork likes this.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.


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    Ex Member Array 5thMarines's Avatar
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    if you were carrying a 9mm , you would be thinking differently , you would need speed and you would need something that would break apart upon impact , that said Ive been next someone who was shot less than 2 feet away , the bullet was a 230 gran FMJ , the round struck his chest ,small hole in front , and 6 inch hole in back , he lived about 10 minutes after that shot! There was absolutely nothing anyone could do to save him? I could literely put my hand in there and my index finger out the hole in his chest ! I dont think theres too many other rounds that could do this (10mm maybe, 44 of course) , 9 , no way!

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    You won't get any argument from me on that one. However, thick heavy winter clothing is probably the only down fall of the 230 fmj, if you believe the reports from the Marines in the Chosin Frozen during the Korean war.

    I believe 9mm fmj may serve better in that respect.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Ex Member Array 5thMarines's Avatar
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    Thats interesting Gman , Im gonna test this out at the range , possibly in the next few days and Ill let ya know the results , I will find a jacket at a thrift shop (thick to perform the test! Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    You won't get any argument from me on that one. However, thick heavy winter clothing is probably the only down fall of the 230 fmj, if you believe the reports from the Marines in the Chosin Frozen during the Korean war.

    I believe 9mm fmj may serve better in that respect.
    Please expand on that. I don't understand why that would be. Is it the velocity? Smaller cross section? Both?
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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    This can only go badly; degenerate into a caliber war with the requisite misunderstanding of terminal ballistics.
    AZ Hawk likes this.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Thats was related to me during my hitch in the Corps by a few of the older senior " horse Marines".
    I never tried it myself, but I can see how it could happen.

    The report was that the enemy was bundled up so well against the extreme cold that when hit with the 45 , you could hear an audible " puff" and they kept coming unfazed.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    This is not an area that I am especially knowledgeable of.
    The best I can figure with what I know is that fabric, if thick enough, or, as in the case of a bullet proof vest, woven tightly enough, could slow down a slower moving bullet by absorption.
    The 45 with it's wider frontal area would be more prone to this than the smaller faster 9mm.
    Hopyard and Bark'n like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqgrill View Post
    This can only go badly; degenerate into a caliber war with the requisite misunderstanding of terminal ballistics.
    It's no secret that there is no perfect round and that placement is the most critical. It's just my opinion based on averages and reliability. My personal second choice would be a "Judge" loaded alternately with 410 00 and 45. There have been 100's of discussions on caliber issues and my personal preference for FMJ would likely change id I lived in a warmer climate like Florida or Texas.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

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    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    The report was that the enemy was bundled up so well against the extreme cold that when hit with the 45 , you could hear an audible " puff" and they kept coming unfazed.
    Hard to believe unless on drugs. It should have at the very least knocked them down I'd think. Had to hurt even if it didn't penetrate.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverickx50 View Post
    Hard to believe unless on drugs. It should have at the very least knocked them down I'd think. Had to hurt even if it didn't penetrate.
    Adrenaline is a very, very potent stimulant.
    shooterX and 64zebra like this.

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    Member Array gunsnroses's Avatar
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    As far as I know, all* LEO's in the colder climates carry JHP. Thats what I carry as a all-around SD round and I trust that it will do its job whatever the BG may be wearing without fear of injuring a IBS.

    * meaning greatly more than average.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses View Post
    As far as I know, all* LEO's in the colder climates carry JHP. Thats what I carry as a all-around SD round and I trust that it will do its job whatever the BG may be wearing without fear of injuring a IBS.

    * meaning greatly more than average.
    The reason is simple. Ethics. Cops know that 230gr ball ammo will penetrate right through the person you shoot and land somewhere, can you guarantee where? Seems pretty darn wreckless to carry ball ammo in a street setting. Are you prepared to deal with the consequences of accidentally killing an innocent bystander from your FMJ's ripping all over the place? JHP is just as much about responsible actions as it is stopping power.

    And the 1911 was designed to fire ball ammo, in a battlefield setting where the bad guy is on one side and you are on the other. Not surrounded by citizens.

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    After all the .45 round is still a .45 whole,without expanding,most 9mm barely get close to half inch expanded.

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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverickx50 View Post
    Hard to believe unless on drugs. It should have at the very least knocked them down I'd think. Had to hurt even if it didn't penetrate.
    I think this is probably a hollywood mentality. I have a friend who fought in Iraq and he said he saw several people get shot. In each case, their bodies didn't even move as a result of the bullet hitting them. He himself was shot in the shoulder and said it did not knock him anywhere, it just hurt really bad.

    If you think about it, it makes sense. Think about newtons law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Which means when a bullet leaves your gun, all of the force that left the gun is present in the recoil of that gun. The difference between the gun and the bullet is that the gun's weight translates some of the energy from high velocity low mass (the bullet) to low velocity high mass (the gun) and the force is spread out over a larger area on your hand. That being the case, if the bullet was powerful enough to knock a person down, then the recoil of the gun should also knock down a person of equal size that was holding the gun.

    As to the original poster, I have decided to carry FMJ in my .32 since I'm not convinced hollow points would have sufficient penetration power on that gun. However, in my 9mm I still use hollow points.
    Hopyard, Dadsnugun and RugerMike like this.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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