This is a discussion on 9mm, and what the heck is wrong with me? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 21bubba We'll give you the chance to re-read his post before the pouncing begins oops.....my bad Not enough coffee when I read ...
Love the 9mm...... Cheap target shooting and plenty of effective SD loads out there too!
"A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington
If the plan is to shot someone and stop them the the 45 wins it was designed to do that and has done it well from day one. The Army did not go to a 9mm because it was better at doing the job. They did it because of NATO. Some thing the have regretted but nothing they can do about it. The .45 is a close range stop them in ther tracks type hang gun it works.
That said The Army did not CC that larger weapon is it hanging on the pistol belt or flack jacket. Of course nowdays you see all kinds of holsters around the Army but no CC.
You have to carry and shoot what you Can. For my wife or daughter to CC a 45 would not work. If you think a 380 is a toy I highly recommend not testing that by getting shot with one close range. Get tagged with a 38 or a 9mm generally will not end well for you. Does you no good to have a weapon you just do not carry. A 9mm ,38 or 380 in your hand is worth far more than a 45 at home.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
Big and Slow, ***, are you kidding me! Tell that to all the guys who carried the .45 in battle. Wow, first time I ever heard someone say that!
Ummmm well you must live a sheltered life then. There has always been two, generally speaking, camps in regards to SD ammo. Heavy and slow, .45, or light and fast, the 9mm. Both camps have great arguments and no one is really to say who is right in the matter.
The .40 kind of bridged the gap but did not end the argument.
The caliber of the weapon does not make a lot of difference to me it is the man shooting it that does.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
The reason 9mms carry so many more rounds is that it takes so many more rounds to get the job done! There, I said it.
Actually, I think any decent SD round in the right place will get the job done as well as any other. But then there is always the exception that people will dwell on forever and ever and ever... I have both 9mm and .45 ACP. I carry which ever suits the occasion, not because of its capablilites.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
Sorry dude, but.... Ahhh, yup; you're nuts of course. The 9mm Luger beats both the rounds you mention in your post by a good margin.... Not sure if there's anything I can say that would help except that I carry a 9mm all the time and I have no doubt that it will drop the BG in a heartbeat, provided I can hit um where it counts, but that goes for any round really.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
Nothing wrong with the 9mm. I shoot a 9mm at our tactical club for cost reasons. And with the right load is a viable self defence round. and the new crop of nines hold more rounds. But as it goes bigger is better. 45 is a good round. but I live under the radar and sometimes carry my 32 or 380 on occasion depending on what im doing. again first rule of a gunfight have a gun. Stay safe.
To make it clear I am a follower of the 45. carried one to long to turn my back on it.
As for the 9mm. Have you ever considered this. When they make the statement about first round kills and the site numbers. What are they using?
The 9mm is more often the weapon of choice in the parking lot shoot outs. They use the stray bullet that hit someone down the road, they use the numbers from the gang banger throwing rounds every where. Those number give a false picture of what the 9mm will do. You don't see the banger at the range on Saturday.
If you going to drop someone 3 blocks down the road don't use a hang gun. Up close is where personal defense is going to happen. 380's and 9mm will get the job done as will a good 38. Providing you hit something center mass, head shots my backside not going to happen anywhere but on you paper at the range.
Other than .22, all I have ever shot with any consistency, and I've shot most popular calibers, is a 1911 with a mess of different loadings and bullet configs.
When I have to resort to a handgun, I just want it to end with the first double tap, (yeah I know, dream on). Where as the 9mm round just keeps going and going. This, in my backwards way of thinking, gives rise to why the magazines for 9mm hold so many rounds, because you need them. Not because the round is "puny" but because the speed doesn't do the damage as a "big slow" .45.
"Western civilization didn't make all men equal,
Samuel Colt did"
Felt that way for years, only warmed to the 9mm about a week ago. Despite carrying 9mm almost every day, the 9mm round was like this tool that worked acceptably or even very well, but that I just didn't like - the design and execution just wasn't (and still isn't) beautiful to me. I always felt the 9mm cartridge was completely adequate, but still disliked it.
The turning point was on a range trip Monday when I saw how much better/faster I shot 124gr Speer Gold Dot 9mm out of my G26, compared to 230gr Golden Saber Bonded JHP from a newly-acquired G36. Similar-size/weight guns, dissimilar followup shots (for me anyway). I imagine I ought to find a softer-recoiling round for the G36 (keep the golden saber for my 1911), and I'm sure if I keep the 36 I'll get better with time; but I was just a natural with the G26 from the start. So 9mm is still not my favorite cartridge, but I have a newfound respect for it.
And while I've always understood that shot placement trumps stopping power, I put a LOT less emphasis on stopping power than I used to.
However, I flat out don't like the .38/.38+P, despite the fact that I occasionally carry a j-frame in situations where the G26 or PF-9 do not excell. I think I accept the .38/.38+P more than having an active dislike for it, simply due to the fact that it's the absolute standard round for small-frame revolvers. (And to make this even more convoluted, despite disliking 9mm, I've always thought 9mm small-frame revolvers ought to be more common. How's that for nuts!?!)
My PF9 is loaded with WWB 147 HPs. It's subsonic like a .45 and loses less velocity coming out the short barrel (3.1") compared to 115s and 124s so they retain enough energy to do some serious damages.