Anyone use .45 GAP? NYSP replaced 9mm with this in 2006 - Page 3

Anyone use .45 GAP? NYSP replaced 9mm with this in 2006

This is a discussion on Anyone use .45 GAP? NYSP replaced 9mm with this in 2006 within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by DefConGun I'm usually leery of making predictions with certainty only because the future holds so many unknowns. While it may be very ...

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Thread: Anyone use .45 GAP? NYSP replaced 9mm with this in 2006

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    I'm usually leery of making predictions with certainty only because the future holds so many unknowns. While it may be very likely that the .45 GAP is on its way out, it could take something as simple as the gun being used in a blockbuster movie to revitalize the round. Mark Wahlberg or whatever celebrity uses it in his next block buster and before you know it, everyone is going into a LGS & asking about that gun that Marky Mark used in that movie that they just saw.
    Alot of probable truth here. All it takes is one celebrity, in one good movie to use the 45 GAP, and all the weekend gun toters will be on the way to the lgs to pick one up.
    Still got my M29 from Dirty Hairy Of course Elmer Keith sealed the deal on that one.
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  2. #32
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    Nah,
    The GAP aint cool enough for any celebrity to use.

    Now, the .357 SIG in a sexy gun, that could happen...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    I'm friends with a FL Trooper that was involved in the shooting (with the Beretta 96 and Ranger T ammo) that prompted the move to the GAP by that agency. Quick summary is that the Gold Dot bonded they were using was replaced by cheaper Ranger. When some of them fragmented when shot through glass, car door, and the driver's seat at a steep angle the .40 caliber in general got the blame. They got the Glocks for trade in on the Berettas that were left over after the Troopers that wanted theirs got to keep them. The slides were engraved with the FHP logo amd each Trooper's ID number. No cost to the agency. That says to me that Glock did whatever they had to to get them to switch to the GAP.

    At the range where I work there is no interest in the gun or ammo except by Troopers who want extra ammo or practice time. We still have boxes of Gold Dot on the shelves that have a "new" sticker on them, and when we needed parts for broken range rental Glocks we stripped the GAP.
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  4. #34
    Member Array mbell1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Alot of probable truth here. All it takes is one celebrity, in one good movie to use the 45 GAP, and all the weekend gun toters will be on the way to the lgs to pick one up.
    Still got my M29 from Dirty Hairy Of course Elmer Keith sealed the deal on that one.
    I agree that could happen with the .357 SIG but not the .45GAP, not fast or sexy enough. Clint
    Eastwood was to the 70's magnum revolver what Mel Gibson was to the "wondernine" in the 80's and 90's Lethal
    Weapon series. Per Danny Glover, "Wow, you carry some serious **** there", Mel Gibson, "17 in the clip, one in the pipe" "what do you carrry" Danny Glover" Smith and Wesson revolver" Mel Gibson, "yeah, most of the old guys still carry that." That movie opened the general public and law enforcements eyes to the high capacity semi-auto big time. Great movie as well although Mel did WAY to much spray and pray in it.

  5. #35
    Member Array TommyGun4169's Avatar
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    45 GAP is basically a 45 Kurtz ! The 380 version of the 45 ACP ! The standard load 45 GAP is slightly better than standard 45 ACP but the GAP is no match for 45 ACP +P rounds. I'll stick with the old tried and true ACP.

    Outlaw Guns and Only Outlaws Will Have Guns !!

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Is there a calling for the 45 Gap in countries that do not allow the use of cartridges used by militaries? I have heard that the 38 super is kept alive by those restrictions.

    Michael

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array Warmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    If you absolutely want to have a pistol that fires a round that is .45 in diameter, but that is no larger than a 9mm or .40 pistol, then the .45 GAP makes a whole lotta sense.
    To add to this point please see the referenced link and watch the video.

    Average Joe's Handgun Reviews: Glock Model 39 .45 GAP

    I always aim for the right eye...and I never miss - Goldeneye

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbell1968 View Post
    Way back in 2006, a NYS trooper, Andrew Speer, was killed in the line of duty by two bad guys, one carrying a .357 magnum. The trooper got off 8 rounds I believe, 4 that hit the bad guy, 2 in the torso, one in the leg, one in the foot. The bad guy was still able to walk up to the trooper after being shot and shoot him 2 additional times, killing him. The trooper used a 9mm glock 19 loaded with Speer Gold Dots, 124 grain standard pressure. This incident caused the NYSP to rethink what they were issuing to the road guys and decided to go with the .45 GAP. Anyone have a opinion on this? Anyone use the .45 GAP, and why? Don't know the exact shot placement by the trooper but obviously the higher ups thought that this was a caliber failure. Thoughts??????????? By the way, I carry a Ruger SR9 9mm loaded with Golden Sabre 124 grain so it hits home for me.
    When the same thing happens with a trooper carrying .45 GAP they'll change calibers again. It's cheaper than consistent hard training and practice.

    What no one likes to acknowledge is you can do everything right and have the best equipment available and you can still be the one to lose. It sucks but that's just the way it is sometimes.

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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I agree that the .45 GAP is simply a designer round to feed Glock's monstrous ego.

    Federal's LE HST data sheets show the following:

    .45 GAP: 890 fps / 404 ft lbs
    .45 ACP: 890 fps / 404 ft lbs
    .45 ACP +P: 950 fps / 461 ft lbs

    Well this makes perfect sense since the design goal of the 45 GAP was "the same balistics as the 45ACP".

    I agree Glock did this mostly for their ego, and also to make a shorter round that fits in the standard glock frame sizes. That being said the 40 S&W offers better ballistics in the same frame size.

    I do disagree about the 357 sig though because again, the goal was to achieve the ballistics of a 357 magnum in a semi auto and there Sig pretty much got it right.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    9mm works just fine, shot placement is key. Was the guy that killed the trooper on drugs or alcohol, it's not like the movies where you can blow someone away with one shot to the torso. My condolences to the trooper and his family.
    Operation Enduring Freedom Veteran

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    9mm works just fine, shot placement is key. Was the guy that killed the trooper on drugs or alcohol, it's not like the movies where you can blow someone away with one shot to the torso. My condolences to the trooper and his family.
    Agencies that have knee jerk caliber change reactions do not look at important things. Its a feel good move rather than putting any rational thought into the decesion. The weakest link in the entire system is not the bullet diamter, gun carried, holster, mag pouches etc... but rather the human/officer. To the educated we all know that regarldess of the caliber 9, 40, 45, etc...all calibers will stop a person, if the person driving it does their part. I remember after the bank of America shoot out. I watched an interview from one of the LAPD spokespeople looked like a high ranking officer, and I remember to this day him saying. "We are immediatly re-evaluating our selection in duty gun, and will most likely be moving to a 45 mms." Now despite the fact they he just said in an interview that he wanted all his Officers to carry a handguns that shoot projectiles that are over 1.82 inches in diamter, we all know he really meant that they they wanted to switch to a .45's. Maybe he should have looked at the fact that his officers fired close to 1000 rounds of ammuntion, and his officers were only able to take down one of suspects with their own guns. If all the officers carried .45's at that shootout, it would have meant they would have had to reload more often, and would have probably run out of ammuntion faster than they did. Could this have resulted in a getaway and possible more people getting shot? I guess we will never know. I guess what I'm trying to say is no department wants to come and say to the public, "our officers are not good shots", they would rather the public think that equipment is failing vs. the officer not being a good shot, properly trained, or doesn't practice using their gun.

    You hear this same logic from any anti-gun organization trying to convince the public that the police have magical special shooting powers, and that us lonely civilians could never reach a mindset or level marksmanship that every officer in this country possess. Sorry got a little side tracked....
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  12. #42
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    I thought the idea behind the GAP was that it provided ACP performance in a shorter case that allowed a smaller grip that people (with smaller hands and women?) could wrap their mitts around, whereas they couldn't with the G21? I can see where it would be fighting an uphill battle for market share.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I thought the idea behind the GAP was that it provided ACP performance in a shorter case that allowed a smaller grip that people (with smaller hands and women?) could wrap their mitts around, whereas they couldn't with the G21? I can see where it would be fighting an uphill battle for market share.
    I guess, however, why would you make a G21SF to also try and fill this role? Granted the G21SF is slighlty bigger, however, it carries 3 more rounds of common ammunition. In fact it is so common that every public range in America that is being used this minute, has speant cases of .45 ACP on the floor. I can't remember the last time I saw a .45 GAP sitting on the floor at the range.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  14. #44
    Member Array thelaw's Avatar
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    I have the G38. 45 ACP performance in a gun sized for 9mm. I enjoy shooting the pistol and it's very surprising how little it recoils. I have no problems finding ammo but I generally buy in bulk and almost always online. I do not reload so not finding brass on the ground hasn't bothered me any.
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  15. #45
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    A weapon that will fire a 230 grain projectile at the same ballistics as the tried and true .45 ACP in a package that is the same size of a 9mm is awesome to me. I think it the .45 GAP would have came around at the same time the .40 S&W things might have been different for the GAP. If I was procuring weapons for a LE agency I would take a look at the .45 GAP. A true big bore automatic with the same ballistics at the .45 ACP that will fit the officers with smaller hands sounds interesting. Glock might be giving away their weapons to LE agencies in an attempt to get them some street credit in order to get other agencies interested in the .45 GAP which in turn will likely get the civilian market interested in the round. Anyway just a thought. One of the down falls I see is that you only get 10 rounds in a full size service pistol.

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