test - 9mm JHPs through Bone Simulant into Gel - Page 2

TEST - 9mm JHPs through Bone Simulant into Gel

This is a discussion on TEST - 9mm JHPs through Bone Simulant into Gel within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm I'll stick with the 147 weight bullets pushed hard. thats what we're issued, would be nice if they did another test ...

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Thread: test - 9mm JHPs through Bone Simulant into Gel

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I'll stick with the 147 weight bullets pushed hard.
    thats what we're issued, would be nice if they did another test with some different rounds
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    More outstanding results for the Barnes XPB bullets (Corbon DPX).

    I'll pick up a few more boxes on sale from Cabela's.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I'm curious if these results match the real-world experience from those with medical trauma and/or handgun hunting experience.
    recovered 45 DPX bullet from autopsy

    From the link, written by Mike Shovel, National Sales Manager of COR-BON/Glaser:

    "This bullet was recovered from a shooting last week. The quality is poor because it's from a camera phone. I can't give in depth details because the pic and info are from an employee at the ME's office and they will probably get fired if discovered. (Please don't ask)

    BG shot this guy with a sub caliber auto pistol, center chest. This guy drew and fired his 45 auto into the BG from the side. Round penetrated left arm breaking the bone, thru the upper chest taking out half his heart and exited out the right arm. Bullet was recovered nearby."

    45 185 +P DPX shooting bullet.jpg
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    BG shot this guy with a sub caliber auto pistol, center chest. This guy drew and fired his 45 auto into the BG from the side. Round penetrated left arm breaking the bone, thru the upper chest taking out half his heart and exited out the right arm. Bullet was recovered nearby."
    And how do we define "over penetration" ?
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    And how do we define "over penetration" ?
    1. "Overpenetration" is only a worry if the bullet has enough remaining energy to wound or kill a person behind the target after it has exited the body of the intended target. .45 ACP FMJ bullets generally don't retain enough energy to wound a second person, so I highly doubt that an expanded .45 JHP bullet could do so.

    2. We were discussing 9mm here, but I could only find one reputable example of real world DPX usage, and it happened to be with .45 ACP.
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  6. #21
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I'll stick with the 147 weight bullets pushed hard.
    I'm with you. Go heavy. Newton's second law: Force equals mass times acceleration. Bastardize it any way you want. Shoot up all the gelatin/sheet rock/pork shoulders you can find and measure everything measurable and draw/publish your conclusions. Heavier rounds always have more effect. In an SD shooting, the only factor I care about is making the BG stop his intentions now. He may or may not die, I don't care. Removing his will or ability to continue an attack is my only goal.
    gottabkiddin likes this.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejib View Post
    I'm with you. Go heavy. Newton's second law: Force equals mass times acceleration. Bastardize it any way you want. Shoot up all the gelatin/sheet rock/pork shoulders you can find and measure everything measurable and draw/publish your conclusions. Heavier rounds always have more effect. In an SD shooting, the only factor I care about is making the BG stop his intentions now. He may or may not die, I don't care. Removing his will or ability to continue an attack is my only goal.
    Newton's second law is actually in favor of faster 9mm bullets as the lighter, faster bullets have more force than the slower, heavier bullets.

    The only reason heavier bullets tend to penetrate better than lighter bullets is because of their greater sectional density.
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  8. #23
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    Don't know much about Newton, but I do know the cylinder rotates and the slide keeps cyclin as long as I'm pullin the trigger. So if the first don't getter done, second and third helpins of lead are a comin.
    And they are heavy.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    1. "Overpenetration" is only a worry if the bullet has enough remaining energy to wound or kill a person behind the target after it has exited the body of the intended target. .45 ACP FMJ bullets generally don't retain enough energy to wound a second person, so I highly doubt that an expanded .45 JHP bullet could do so.

    2. We were discussing 9mm here, but I could only find one reputable example of real world DPX usage, and it happened to be with .45 ACP.
    1) And as we don't know the circumstances of "recovered nearby" we don't know that in fact it did not retain enough energy to cause injury or death to a bystander. What we do know is that the bullet failed to expend all of it's energy inside a man that was shot in such a way as to be as a deep a target as possible for a typical standing shooter standing target engagement.

    2) Yes, apples and peaches.

    I am curious as to what was the criteria for ammo selection. How many agencies use the ammo used in the test?
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    How many agencies use the ammo used in the test?
    No idea. You'll have to e-mail COR-BON for that information, and I have no idea if they can give it to you.
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  11. #26
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    Newton's second law: Force equals mass times acceleration.
    True, but you can't assume bullets of different weight are accelerated at the same rate.

    Newton's second law is actually in favor of faster 9mm bullets as the lighter, faster bullets have more force than the slower, heavier bullets
    Not quite. Lighter, faster bullets can have more kinetic energy, but not force. KE favors velocity (KE = 1/2 mass x velocity squared), but that's not to be found in Newton's Second Law, which relates force to acceleration.

    Leave Newtonian physics out of it; that discussion relative to a bullet's terminal performance would necessarily have to include the energy required to deform bullets of different materials and construction, and probably lots more. What we do know by observation and experience is that heavier and more solidly-constructed bullets penetrate more deeply than lighter ones, at least within a defined velocity range.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    True, but you can't assume bullets of different weight are accelerated at the same rate.



    Not quite. Lighter, faster bullets can have more kinetic energy, but not force. KE favors velocity (KE = 1/2 mass x velocity squared), but that's not to be found in Newton's Second Law, which relates force to acceleration.

    Leave Newtonian physics out of it; that discussion relative to a bullet's terminal performance would necessarily have to include the energy required to deform bullets of different materials and construction, and probably lots more. What we do know by observation and experience is that heavier and more solidly-constructed bullets penetrate more deeply than lighter ones, at least within a defined velocity range.
    Yes, I realize now that I was inadvertently mixing up force with momentum. Physics.........

    Anyways, what you say is true.

    Edit: Grammar...
    Last edited by AZ Hawk; November 18th, 2011 at 10:02 PM.
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  13. #28
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    When in doubt shoot till the threat ceases.

    Doing that covers it all.

    Pentration,Momentum,Weight,Speed,Tumbling or not tumbling, good or bad, it takes care of all of the questions.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Ah - gotcha.

    Well, this test was just published. Maybe they will test other brands/loads/bullet weights in the future.

    As far as fat layers go, I know my own tends to be lower on the abdomen - not so much in front of the vitals in the upper torso.
    Far too many pairs of moobs running around out there...and some may be hostile.

    10thmtn and AZ Hawk like this.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Far too many pairs of moobs running around out there...and some may be hostile.

    Haha!
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

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