.223 As A Defense Round

.223 As A Defense Round

This is a discussion on .223 As A Defense Round within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Question - I have seen it stated on numerous sites that the .223 is useless as a defensive round. The typical response is "it's hardly ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46
Like Tree12Likes

Thread: .223 As A Defense Round

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    1,483

    .223 As A Defense Round

    Question - I have seen it stated on numerous sites that the .223 is useless as a defensive round. The typical response is "it's hardly bigger than a .22"

    My question is this, if that statement is true why does the military use .223 / 5.56 NATO rounds? The local Army Depot (Richmond KY) ships literally tons of this to troops over seas. Somehow I feel I am getting bad information from well intending individuals.

    Education please?
    Diddle
    Indusrtrial Machine Tool Technician - Certified Refrigeration Technician - CET
    NRA Life Member


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,365
    I'd say the truly ignorant say it's useless as a defensive round, especially at inside the home distances.

    And since we're not handicapped by having to use FMJ rounds (as the military is), effectiveness just goes up from there.

    Plenty of folks with good intentions don't know what they're talking about.
    Bark'n and willijaccs like this.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,115
    That's rubbish. At the speed the bullet is traveling it is a very devastating round.
    willijaccs likes this.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    I have read that small high velocity rounds are safer for home defense because they are less likely to fully penetrate walls and end up in a neighbors house. That they expend all their energy on the immediate target instead of passing through.

    Michael

  5. #5
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    The .223 fragments so quickly (dissipating all it's energy) that it is actually one of the safer in-home rounds to use. In my training and experience, .223 will -usually- not penetrate 2 pieces of sheet-rock. Which means it enters the wall, but does not exit the other side. Sounds pretty good to me.

    That 00buck round your neighbor just fired is coming through your walls next.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,353
    The biggest issue with 5.56/.223 is barrier penetration. In some cases, that is a good thing (like home defense). In other cases, it can be a very bad thing.

    While I have a 5.56 rifle (Mini 14), if I ever need to defend my general area in a civil disturbance, I'm grabbing my .30-30.

    Remember that the individual infantryman with a 5.56 M16 or M4 is backed up by a full-auto SAW (2 per squad), along with 7.62 x 51 machine guns, grenade launchers, and everything else that is only a radio call away. As a civilian, I do not have the big green machine backing me up - so my preferrence is for something launching a heavier rifle bullet.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,842
    Quote Originally Posted by Diddle View Post
    Question - I have seen it stated on numerous sites that the .223 is useless as a defensive round. The typical response is "it's hardly bigger than a .22"

    Education please?
    Next time someone says that, have them find a .22lr, and a .223, and the compare the sizes. The bullet itself on the .223 is about the size of the whole cartridge for a .22lr
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,798
    Quote Originally Posted by Diddle View Post
    Question - I have seen it stated on numerous sites that the .223 is useless as a defensive round. The typical response is "it's hardly bigger than a .22"

    My question is this, if that statement is true why does the military use .223 / 5.56 NATO rounds? The local Army Depot (Richmond KY) ships literally tons of this to troops over seas. Somehow I feel I am getting bad information from well intending individuals.

    Education please?
    Hardly bigger?

    A .22lr, with a 36 grain bullet traveling about 1200 fps vs a .223 with a 55 grain bullet going 3200 fps.

    A lot bigger
    MinistrMalic and JerryMac like this.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  9. #9
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    293
    I have read that the .223 is much more effective the closer to muzzle velocity it is. Apparently the bullet likes to go end over end upon striking tissue and fragments causing multiple wound channels and making a general mess of things. The 5.56 out of shorter barrels at longer distance may have more of a tendancy for through and through, knitting needle type wounds. This, mind you, is all based upon reading and not experience. I am a chairborne ranger in that respect. :)

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,353
    The military FMJ needs high velocities in order to fragment upon tumbling. The problem is that the shorter barrels do not produce the higher velocities. That is compounded by the use of faster twist rates, which were needed for the heavier (and thus longer) bullets, which the military wanted for better barrier penetration - these bullets tend to be more stable. In Somalia, the 5.56 did tend to zip right through the skinny drugged-up militia fighters, leaving ice pick-like wounds that would not quickly stop them unless a vital area was hit. They were so skinny, that the bullets would tumble only after they had already gone through.

    As civilians, all these issues can be easily avoided by the use of a JSP or a JHP.

    While 5.56 is fine (as is .223), I still prefer a .30-something for serious work.
    Guest1 likes this.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,414
    A 55 grain .223 round traveling at 3000+ feet per second gives a muzzle energy of 1200+ ft-lbs. That is a huge amount of kinetic energy transferring to soft tissue. The 40 grain .22lr gives about 115 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. So yeah, not exactly the same round. :)
    Guest1 likes this.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

  12. #12
    New Member Array ccwisgood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Augusta,Maine until 11/28
    Posts
    4
    I got on some page at the beginning of the war when we all started feeling the large price increases along with the shortages
    that we were shipping 3.5 million rounds of 223/556 rounds per mouth to the ground forces.Someone more knowledgeable
    than me. I remember our servicemen were using 62grain and 72or77 grain for long distances.I remember during the Viet Nam
    era when M16 was first introduced and it was killing our soliders because of using wrong gunpowder not keeping clean.Colt put
    up ablock wall and proceeded to destroy it with those little bullets.I know some guys would buy black market thompsons orak's
    because they would go bang when you needed.Even today the M-14 still rocks !

  13. #13
    Member Array Eaglebeak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Republic Of Texas
    Posts
    367
    There's no such thing as a "worthless" round for home defense because any round of any caliber is better than nothing at all or a golf club.

    To me, the most important aspect of a home defense weapon precludes any type of shoulder-stocked rifle or shotgun (of any caliber or gauge) because they are simply too long to quickly swing around, aim (by whatever method) and fire in the generally tight confines of a home environment's small rooms full of furniture, doors, and other proximity objects to hit with the barrel or greatly restrict free weapon movement in any direction. It's very diffcult to quickly aim or point-shoot a target with a long-gun from over or around any cover you may be using without almost fully exposing yourself - not so with a handgun.

    After being forced to carry an inferior .223 "varmint round" (best suited for popping prairie dogs at 300 meters) in combat while noting the major wound difference created by the .30 caliber AK carbine round, a 5.56 x 45mm rifle would be my #2 choice for interior home defense.
    My #1 choice would be just about everything else.

    As a note for "apples to apples" comparison of average mil-spec ball ammo:
    5.56 x 45mm (.223) = 56 grain bullet @ 3240fps w/ 1282 ft/lbs me
    7.62 x 39mm (.30 AK) = 124 grain bullet @ 2330fps w/ 1495 ft/lbs me

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,054
    I agree that the bigger problem with the .223 as a home defense round is more to do with the platform than the round itself. Unless your house is a hallway at one end and all the rooms are clustered at one end of it, a rifle just isn't practical. A rifle is a precision instrument for intermediate to long ranges, not next room work unless you've got SWAT-type training.

    Now, one of those pistol-grip 12-gauge shotguns... who wants to buy me a Christmas present?

  15. #15
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Now, one of those pistol-grip 12-gauge shotguns... who wants to buy me a Christmas present?
    Word of warning...If you opt for a pistol grip 12 guage get the Knox Breacher grip. They make them for 870s and Mossberg 500s if I remember correctly. Otherwise it can be painful to fire enough to become proficient. A couple of boxes of shells with the old pistol grip left mine and my wifes hands visibly bruised. With the Knox we can shoot boxes and boxes of shells with no problem. Feels like a stout .410 or a light 20G now. A laser sight wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

.223 defense round
,
223 defense round
,
does the military use .223
,
hyper static shock
,
is a 223 bigger than a 22
,

pat mcnamara delta

,

pat mcnamara delta force

,

what 223 ammo does the military use

,

what kind of 223 ammo does the military use

,

why does military use .223

,
why does the army use .223
,

why does the military use .223

Click on a term to search for related topics.