Hornady VS Gold Dot?

This is a discussion on Hornady VS Gold Dot? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; @GentlemanJim Thanks. Nice to see some testing, even if it might be biased. It would be nice to see unbiased tests of all designs, same ...

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Thread: Hornady VS Gold Dot?

  1. #61
    Member Array snakyjake's Avatar
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    @GentlemanJim

    Thanks. Nice to see some testing, even if it might be biased. It would be nice to see unbiased tests of all designs, same test, for subcompacts.

    It may seem like I over analyze, but I enjoy the ingenuity, designs, theories, tests, and debunking. I like to try and see all the angles, as it lets me know what is missing, weaknesses, and what still needs improvements. The bonded bullets, rubber filled HP, solid core all give me concern about reliability (plugging, separation, fragmentation). Recoil designs gives me concern on smaller lightweight firearms, the way I carry, and the way I shoot.

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    To breath new life into this dead horse, please go out and buy G & A's Handguns - February/March 2012 issue as they have a PUFF piece on "Hornady's AWESOME New Ammo"! Dick Metcalf does a 4 page spread on the Critical Duty Ammo, but the test barrel lengths are all 4" +.

    After reading the piece I'm still carring Winchester Ranger, Speer Gold Dot, and Double Tap w/ Winchester Bullets until there is some "Real Life" results.

    I don't remember the last time anyone was attacked by Bare Butted Gelatin or Gelatin wearing denim or Bare Butted Gelatin doing a drive by!


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  4. #63
    Member Array GunByte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    @GentlemanJim

    Are you sure your Winchester PDX performs better than Critical Defense out of your 1.875" barrel; Or are you presuming the service pistols used in the FBI protocols equal the ballistics of a 1.875" barrel?

    Reminds me of shooting .45 ACP out of those 3" 1911's....very poor ballistics. Same with 357 out of the short barrels; excessive flash, sound, and recoil, with no advantage over +P.
    Well actually there is an advantage in every test I have seen or read about by actual ballistics experts so I am assuming you are just going on what you read someone else post in a gun forum rather than fact or your own tests. Top .357 will always beat a top .38 +P. Shortening the barrel reduces velocity for not only the .357 but also the .38 +P. The .357 Mag is a mag because it has more gun powder than a regular round, even a +P. So while it is true that all of it may not burn off in a short barrel, there is still enough that does burn to give it more energy and speed than anything else you can shoot out of a snub nose, even a short barrel round. Of course you can compare a hot .38 +P with a mild .357 and prove the .38 superior as is often the case of people who want to produce the results to back up their beliefs. The bullistics of my .327 Federal Magnum even beats out mild .357 mags if I use the hottest .327 round against a mild or weak .357. Apples to apples will always show the .357 to have more speed and energy.

  5. #64
    Member Array redbeardsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    I don't remember the last time anyone was attacked by Bare Butted Gelatin or Gelatin wearing denim or Bare Butted Gelatin doing a drive by!
    I've wondered about the denim tests. I can't remember the last time I saw someone wear a denim jacket. How about testing through T-shirts, sweatshirts, nylon and polyester jackets and parkas, and fleece? Those are much more common these days.

  6. #65
    Member Array snakyjake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbeardsong View Post
    I've wondered about the denim tests. I can't remember the last time I saw someone wear a denim jacket. How about testing through T-shirts, sweatshirts, nylon and polyester jackets and parkas, and fleece? Those are much more common these days.
    4 layers of denim is used to demonstrate worse case scenario against the other fabrics you mentioned. Therefore you can use the denim test and know the bullet will perform better against t-shirts.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theheater905 View Post
    With the design of modern JHP ammunition I dont think you can go wrong with any of the major manufacturers. I think it is a more a matter of what you are comfortable with and shoot well, what functions flawlessly in your particular gun and maybe to a lesser extent brand loyalty. Boomer is right, they will all get the job done with good shot placement.
    Couldnt have said it better myself. Thanks for this post.

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbeardsong View Post
    about testing through T-shirts, sweatshirts, nylon and polyester jackets and parkas, and fleece? Those are much more common these days.
    I did an "unscientific" gel test with pdx1's a while ago. 2 layers of 100% cotton, raw pork ribs, and 12" home-made gel. pdx1 went 6" I think after the cotton and ribs. I'll pm you a link to the crappy video I made of it if you want.

  9. #68
    Distinguished Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    How will we know when the race if over?

  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    ...There's that argument again.

    A Word of Caution about Hornady’s Critical Defense Handgun Ammunition
    - by Shawn Dodson

    According to Steve Johnson, Hornady Marketing Communications Manager, the Critical Defense line of handgun ammunition:

    "...is not designed to shoot through glass, is not designed to shoot through a car door, and is not designed to shoot through a wall. If you have to shoot through something like that in a personal defense situation you're probably going to jail."

    -- NRA's American Guardian TV

    Thus if you carry a concealed handgun for personal defense and need to shoot from the inside of your car, through glass or sheetmetal, then you cannot rely on Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo to perform. If you're stopped at the side of the road changing a flat tire and you're attacked, you cannot rely on Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo to shoot through glass and sheetmetal, if that's what it takes to stop the attack.

    Laminated automotive windshield glass is an especially difficult barrier for handgun bullets.

    Ironically at least one TV commercial for Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo depicts a couple stopped on the side of a road, in a remote location, changing out a flat tire. In a scenario such as this you might have to shoot through a raised trunk lid, glass hatchback, raised engine hood, or through the sheetmetal of an open car door.

    If you use Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo for home defense you cannot rely on it to perform if you have shoot through concealment, such as the corner of a wall or through sheetrock and 2x4 studs near a door jam, to hit the center mass of a violent home intruder who's partially concealed, if that's what it takes to stop the attack.

    Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo is not designed to shoot through anything other than clothing. It's not tested against anything other than bare gelatin and clothing. Performance against commonly encountered light barrier materials is untested and unknown. Therefore if your self-defense requirements include the capability to shoot through commonly encountered light barrier materials then Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo is not your best choice.

    The human target presents the same challenges to private citizens as it does to law enforcement. Is a law enforcement officer more likely to have to shoot through glass, sheetmetal or the corner of a wall than a private citzen? Probably. But because the odds are probably greater for law enforcement to encounter these kinds of situations does not mean that the odds are zero for a private citizen.

    Personal defense ammo designed especially for "private citizens" is a niche market. Perhaps it's somehow more morally/socially appealing for a private citizen to use handgun ammunition with less terminal performance capability compared to common law enforcement handgun ammunition?

    If you're looking for specific advice about what handgun ammunition to choose for self-defense then I suggest you consider the loads that have been tested and found to provide outstanding terminal performance which are listed in the thread Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads posted by Dr. Gary K. Roberts ("DocGKR") at M4Carbine.net Forums.

    Personally, my primary defense handguns are the Glock 19 and Kahr PM-9. I load both with Speer 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dot JHP ammunition, which I purchase for about $27 per 50 round box from Streicher's PoliceHQ.com. Private citizens can purchase Speer Gold Dot and Federal Law Enforcement Tactical HST handgun ammunition directly from Streicher's.


    FirearmsTactical.com: TacticalBriefs, April 2006

    Also, see post #24 here, which shows a .38 Special HCD failing in denim testing: What is the scoop on Hornady's new handgun ammo with the plastic in the hollow point. - Page 2 - M4Carbine.net Forums
    This is all opinion^.. I've seen all the major types listed fail to expand. HCD is not as horrible as this person is saying.
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  11. #70
    Member Array lamerem's Avatar
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    Speer

    <------- this guy loads with 180g Speer Gold Dot JHP! Its proven and a favorite of most leo's in my region. Its a little more expensive but performs well in my S&W M&P Shield 40 caliber. I am a fan of carrying heavy for caliber. critical duty in 40 is 175g and critical defense is 165g. I am also not a fan of gimmick bullets utilizing any foriegn material to" protect" the hollow point cavity. They are relying on the cool factor to make the sale. You can't see it when its in the pipe.

  12. #71
    Member Array lamerem's Avatar
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    *****

    So that being said ^^^^ in the post above, I was at the local Mom & Pop Hardware store today and they had a box (only 1 box) of Hornady Critical Defense 175g 40 S&W for $22.95. So I decided to pick it up. I have had this Shield 40 for about a month and I am trying to run as many different types through it to see what it can handle and what it likes. So far it loves everything! After further review of the round up close there are some things that I like and some that I do not. I wish it was a truly bonded bullet, not the retaining crimp. There is a little shoulder where the bullet is crimped into the casing that is not there on the Gold Dots (may be a feed problem, may not testing will decide.) The rubber/polymer HP plug is much softer than I thought it would be (to my liking), I feel the softness will allow it to be more effective. YouTube's famed "TNOUTDOORS" provided ballistics testing and showed pretty uniform mushrooming for the Hornady but the Gold Dot was a little larger mushroom, could be the bonded vs. retaining crimp. So preliminary examinations look promising and therefor I will take back my previous post assumptions until I can further test both rounds together. I will try to video the results and post that on YouTube.

  13. #72
    Ex Member Array gregnsc's Avatar
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    I carry a 45 and use gold dot.I really believe unless someone is a bad shot,you hit someone with fmjs,they are going down.

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array Smarshe's Avatar
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    Thus if you carry a concealed handgun for personal defense and need to shoot from the inside of your car, through glass or sheetmetal, then you cannot rely on Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo to perform. If you're stopped at the side of the road changing a flat tire and you're attacked, you cannot rely on Hornady Critical Defense handgun ammo to shoot through glass and sheetmetal, if that's what it takes to stop the attack.

    That's why I carry Critical Duty.

  15. #74
    Member Array gallardo.g23's Avatar
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    those are both to spendy, i just use a good hollow point for my 40 cal glock. and my back up mag has fmj incase im in a shootout and need the rounds to go through a car door or something like that cause im not sure if hollows will go through i think their made to stop when they hit a target most times. could be wrong but ya a mag full of hps and mag of fmjs. the bullets are all going to but a hole in you so i wont spend extra money on special rounds

  16. #75
    Member Array lamerem's Avatar
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    You make a good point. I prefer to spend the extra dough to get Nickle Plated for corrosion resistance since the midwest weather is a game changer. But the idea of using FMJ's in a shoot out is good one. Your absolutely right that good shot placement would render FMJ just as effective. However I think the majority of the crowd carry hollow points to limit over penetration.

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