Not rotating your ammo =Kaboom? long

This is a discussion on Not rotating your ammo =Kaboom? long within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've experienced bullet setback with 45ACP before. 1911s seem to cause it more than other 45s. However, Golden Sabers are pretty good at preventing setback. ...

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Thread: Not rotating your ammo =Kaboom? long

  1. #31
    Member Array mattwestm's Avatar
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    I've experienced bullet setback with 45ACP before. 1911s seem to cause it more than other 45s. However, Golden Sabers are pretty good at preventing setback. I guess the shape of the bullet has something to do with it. Just to be on the safe side, I only chamber a hollowpoint two times before it goes into my range ammo. I've experienced setback before, but not to the extent that it would cause a kaboom.

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  3. #32
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about you accident but thanks for sharing, and if you don't mind would like to pass it along. Once again heal well, heal fast

  4. #33
    Member Array Gunsmoke16's Avatar
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    Wow...glad to see you are ok. ALWAYS wear shooting "glasses" as well. Once blew the end right out of a .45 Springfield Champion. It was modified with a delta cup bushing for a full-length guide rod and the end came out on the last round out of the magazine. The spring went about 7yards, pistol had locked open, but weirdest thing was the guide-rod plug came out and the bullet caught it...sending it down-range (on fire just like a mini-meteor...we never found it) toward the 25 yard rail. Being a Springfield, no damage other than loosening of rails a bit that required peening them back and replacing with original parts... Yes, sometimes the ammo mgf mix their ammo to get an even burn. I know of some local incidents with Glocks in .40 caliber that have been exploded. Nobody hurt either time, but those .40 are very dangerous. Problem is the cup pressure inside the case. When reloading ammo, you have to know what effective pressure you get from power used. The .40 is so particular it has to have a certain amount or it will squib and just get stuck or barely fall out the end or you get too much powder and it can wreck the gun. The margin of error is the smallest of any ammo I ever saw while reloading. Just a few extra grains= disaster. Also, the overall length of the bullet/casing also matters. If it's just a millimeter too short, it could cause pressure to not get the bullet moving properly or too long, it could cause dangerous amount of pressure that could blow the casing. A .45 has a LARGE cushion of error. My guess is that it was a combination of short or long ammo with possibly a double load of powder.

  5. #34
    Member Array deadhawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    What put you on the powder theory? I have looked around, and have not found powder breakdown shown as a cause of catastrophic failure anywhere. Was your Glock not covered under warranty?
    Glock considered it an ammo problem, not a gun problem, so they would not cover it. I understand their position.

    I don't claim to have proven facts about the cause of the kaboom, just a theory.

    There are, however, a couple reasons why I thought it might be a breakdown of the powder:

    Some time ago I read a story about a guy who had a kaboom with a ammo that had been carried around in a pickup truck for several years, and that was the expainlation given for that event. No documentation, no proof, just a story in an internet gun forum, but it made me wonder.

    Also, given my 25 year background in power plant operation, I'm familiar with differing burn rates of differently sized fuel particles and the need for and methods of controlling the size of fuel particles. One method of controlling the size of fuel particles is a "Bradford Breaker", which is a large diameter, slowly rotating cylinder with perferated gratings inside. Coal is added to the cylinder, and as it rotates, the coal is continually lifted and dropped on the top of lower coal particles and grating, gradually breaking down into smaller pieces that then fall through the grate, and then removed by conveyor. The same thing could happen to powder granules bouncing and rubbing against each other inside a cartridge. I have seen first hand that a sudden change from large fuel particles to very fine particles will cause a sudden and dramatic increase in the pressure inside a furnace. Here, I am talking about a 140 foot tall furnace burning 20 tons of coal an hour. A similar process on a much smaller scale is a possibility.

    Again, that's not proof that my theory is correct, but I believe, in the absence of any other clear cause, it is not an unreasonable possibility.
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  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Blame notwithstanding, a disinterested manufacturer does not enhance my confidence.
    Can't blame the hardware for a software problem.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    Can't blame the hardware for a software problem.
    Thanks, but the ostensible disinterest was cleared up in subsequent posts.

  8. #37
    Member Array sm31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadhawg View Post
    The only exlaination that I can come to is that the kaboom may have been caused by firing ammo that had been carried in the saddlebags of my motorcycle for thousands of miles. The vibration of the bike, the bouncing around from potholes, etc. caused the powder to break down into smaller granules, which will ignite and burn faster that the would otherwise.
    If your hog did that to some carry ammo... then your @ss must be a disaster!

    Just kidding! Glad you're ok!
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems scary and weird. It'll happen to you.—Abraham Simpson

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    Here is a website that shows some other KaBoom: KABOOM - Imgur

    SquibRounds.jpg

    The above is a GOOOOD grouping of squibb rounds. After the first I'm wondering who pulled the trigger for the rest?


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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array ks kid's Avatar
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    Gald to hear you're ok. Thanks for sharing.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    at what point does a gun fail ? 1K, 2K , 3K , 4k, 5K, 6K .... like any product , if there is a weakness due to anything in the the manufacturing process or the material of that particular 1 item , it will definitely show up. So, to get Brand sensitive, seems to be a bit absurd.

    Ammo or Gun, or combination of both. I'm not sure you've found your answer. It also could have been an accidental double loaded cartridge. Whatever the cause, it had to suck.
    Yeah, the fact that the other rounds from the same box appeared normal does not mean that the one that destroyed the gun was not double loaded.

    Given the high speed automated manufacturing processes used in ammo plants I suppose any glitch like a temporay line shut down where the powder loader is Emergency stopped for some reason, then restarted could cause a single cartridge to be loaded twice. Ideally there should be a weight sensor on the casing as it exits the fill station to reject any cases that are overfilled.

    Your lucky that you were not seriously hurt, and it was great that the ammo manufacturer replaced your gun, no questions asked. I'm sure that went a long ways towards keeping you as a customer, and it also was good public relations in that your not willing to reveal the manufacturers name on the internet. I commend your ethics on not posting a report of how "brand X ammo sucks and it destroyed my gun".

  12. #41
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
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    Glad you were alright, but I really doubt your ammunition riding along with you would have changed the burn characteristics of the ammo to the point of a kB. The rest of that ammo shot fine, didn't it? I think it was a manufacturing issue. Will you share which kind of ammunition caused the issue? Also, was there a possibility of the round being chambered multiple times facilitating bullet set back? In improperly loaded ammo there may not have been sufficient neck tension in the first place which could have led to bullet set back.

    I have read a thread posting (possibly AR15.com?) about tumbling ammo in a vibratory tumbler. I can't find the exact thread but the object of this experiment was to see if vibrations would tear apart, break down or change the burn rate of a powder. Several different calibers/powders were tumbled, some for a short time and some an extended time. There were some very close-up pictures showing before and after tumbling of powder granules. In the end there was no visible difference between any granules before and after. The tumbled rounds were shot through a chronograph and the velocities were unchanged to non-tumbled but were much more consistent round-to-round than the non-tumbled ammo. I really wish I could find the thread to show you guys because it was very detailed and a lot of work went into the experiment but my google-fu has failed me. Maybe one of you guys can find it.

    I don't currently tumble ammo because the possibility of risks aren't worth slightly shinier ammo, this experiment showed that tumbling ammo did not cause problems like many believed it would and in the controlled experiment involving certain components, it debunked the myth that tumbling loaded ammo will blow up your gun... (for the components specifically used in the experiment). On top of that, the tumbling improved the round-to-round consistency for velocities. Again, I don't condone tumbling loaded ammo but I wouldn't say it is a bad idea entirely.

    EDIT: I finally found the link to the experiment. Tumble live ammo Tumbler O' thruth EXTREME edition, 200hour torture test**UPDATE**fired rounds in OP - AR15.COM
    Last edited by Fisher10; December 28th, 2011 at 12:20 PM.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    My guess is it was either
    1) Double load
    2) bullet set back
    3) metal failure of the barrel

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array Katana's Avatar
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    Glad you'e ok, but I honestly don't believe it was the riding around in your saddlebags that caused it. I'm an over the road truck driver who averages at least 200,000 miles a year (not to mention all the time spent in my POV while I'm off) and I've been carrying since '96, and driving a truck since '02. I generally shoot off all of my carry ammo once a year and replace it with fresh ammo, and I've never had a problem like this.

    My firearm and 2 extra magazines are always with me, usually in an IWB holster, or stored in a case when I'm in Illinois (The only anti state I'll go into), so if it was a matter of ammo being bounced around, then odds are it would have happened to me by now.

    Put me down in the camp of people who thinks it was a powder overload at the ammo factory. Glad they're replacing your Glock as well.
    "Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA

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  15. #44
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    200k miles/year? You must be twins.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array Katana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    200k miles/year? You must be twins.
    Whoops, typo I didn't catch last night, should've read 100k miles a year, as I drive 2,000 to 3,000 miles a week.
    "Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA

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