Hornady Zombie rds - What? - Page 4

Hornady Zombie rds - What?

This is a discussion on Hornady Zombie rds - What? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by barstoolguru Zombie max ammo is a self defense ammo the uses a critical defense bullet with a hot load ( 9mm is ...

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Thread: Hornady Zombie rds - What?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Zombie max ammo is a self defense ammo the uses a critical defense bullet with a hot load ( 9mm is running 1200fps)
    The bullet has the center filled with plastic so when you shoot through clothing they don't fill with trash and are allow expanding in soft tissue.
    Redneckís say they are good stuff..Just so you know itís a bonded bullet and retains almost all of its weight



    Except the only place they always expand is in Hornady's marketing claims.

    Basically, Hornady finally admitted that Critical Defects was a gimmick when they stuffed it in Z-max.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm


  2. #47
    Member Array jasgo's Avatar
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  3. #48
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Except the only place they always expand is in Hornady's marketing claims.

    Basically, Hornady finally admitted that Critical Defects was a gimmick when they stuffed it in Z-max.

    from the video:There seems to be some confusion on Critical Duty vs Critical Defense - they are not the same bullet. The Critical Defense is made to expand at lower velocities in short carry guns - not through barriers other than clothing (defensive round). Critical Duty is made to perform in the FBI protocol barrier tests and is designed differently internally (thicknesses, interlock band etc...) - a more in depth explanation of the differences is available at the Hornady website.


  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    from the video:There seems to be some confusion on Critical Duty vs Critical Defense - they are not the same bullet. The Critical Defense is made to expand at lower velocities in short carry guns - not through barriers other than clothing (defensive round). Critical Duty is made to perform in the FBI protocol barrier tests and is designed differently internally (thicknesses, interlock band etc...) - a more in depth explanation of the differences is available at the Hornady website.

    No confusion at all.

    I've seen more than one test--and by verifiable, scientific sources, not Utoob Kommandos shooting water jugs, wetpack, homebrew "simulant" or the Sunday roast--where the Critical Defense failed to expand.

    As for Critical Duty, I'll wait until somebody besides Hornady's marketing department has done tests (again, verifiable, scientific--not the backyard shoots) on them before I believe the hype.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    It's a just-for-fun gimmick. I bought a box and showed it to my kids - it impressed them and made me crack up!
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

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  6. #51
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    OK, I admit it. I'll have to order a box. Too clever a gimmick to pass up. 'course I'll still load Gold Dots in my EDC.

  7. #52
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    I have to laugh because who ever made this up is banking big

    while I was looking up something this come up on the zombie craze

    "Shooting zombies is the fad among gun enthusiasts"
    Shooting zombies is the fad among gun enthusiasts - Yahoo! News

    "It is absolutely dumbfounding," said Addison Sovine, a salesman hustling on Saturday to keep up with the demand for the shooting accessory at the Law Enforcement Targets booth.

    For the truly zombie-obsessed, Sovine demonstrated small packets of blood-colored liquid that can be purchased to attach to the back of the zombie target so that it bleeds when shot. If an explosion is desired, a grainy mixture is for sale that will blast like a firecracker when hit."

  8. #53
    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH_Esau View Post
    That's exactly why I won't get any ZMax either. I think it's a hilarious marketing stunt and shows a good sense of humor. But how do you answer when it comes up in criminal or civil court?

    Ambulance Chamber: "So, Mr Esau, did you think Mr Thug was a zombie?"
    Me: "No... I..."
    AC: "The product description specifically says this is only for zombies. Why did you shoot him with anti-zombie ammo if you didn't think he was a zombie?"
    Me: "It's what I had in the gun, it's the same as..."
    AC: "So you always walk around prepared for a zombie apocalypse? Do you believe zombies are real?"
    Me: "No... look, I got them as a gag gift..."
    AC: "Oh, so killing people is funny?"

    Unfortunately, you'll come across as either reckless or mentally ill.
    A really good point, and often one overlooked. I will not use any ammo that's labeled as anything other than personal protection in my carry gun. You don't want to be on the stand, and the DA asks you why you think your gun needed deathblow ammunition. I would hate for anything to cloud the facts in the case I have to make a defensive shoot. Anything that will make you look like a loose cannon on trial is a bad idea for a CC gun. I would like to throw a set of punisher grips on my 1911 but, that wouldn't be great to explain if I ever had to use that gun to defend myself.

    Things like gimmick ammo, or unusual gun modifications will just hurt you in court. The DA is going to use anything in his power to try and convict you, if it gets to the point of them pressing charges. In trial, the only thing the DA is concerned with is winning. Why give them any reason to paint you as a degenerate, or cloud the facts to get a conviction. I wanted to buy the gambler edition of the sig P238, I like to play cards but I thought against it for a CC gun.

    The gun depicts the "dead mans hand". I'm sure this could be used by a cleaver district attorney to paint me as some kind of gambler with other people's lives or some such thing. The best thing you could have going for you in trial is to be a regular Ward Clever. I think most people that CC are responsible upstanding citizens. The average view of us are gun nuts, or bloodthirsty crazies. Why help them come to the second conclusion about you.

  9. #54
    New Member Array CoyoteHunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunGeezer View Post
    I was in my LGS after Christmas and they had a stack of Zombie ammo on the counter. Told me it was flying out of there as fast as they could get it. It may not make sense, but it's one smart marketing ploy.
    More than just smart - brilliant. Have to hand it to Hornady - have some harmless fun and make money, too.

  10. #55
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    I will be posting a series of videos on my youtube channel this summer regarding balistics. I will be doing more than just the typical "shoot into water jugs" testing.
    I will be testing in the following situations:

    shooting JHP through car doors and into balstic media
    shooting JHP through Pylwood and into balstic media
    shooting JHP through Drywall and into balstic media
    shooting JHP through car windows and into balstic media


    If you want your round tested feel free to post message me and we can work something out. I don't have the means to buy all the common hand gun rounds on the market to test them. I have the means to test every round except the .357sig.

    I would love to test some Gold Dots, Hornady Critical Duty/Critical Defense, Federal, Winchester, Etc. Post message me. for more details or sugestions.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
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    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Anyone with half a brain and is honest knows full well what "zombie" means. For a respected ammo mfgr to take a serious product and make light of it with an ill-informed product naming under the catchall "creative marketing" that can easily lead to a "misunderstanding" is an embarrassment.

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Anyone with half a brain and is honest knows full well what "zombie" means. For a respected ammo mfgr to take a serious product and make light of it with an ill-informed product naming under the catchall "creative marketing" that can easily lead to a "misunderstanding" is an embarrassment.
    +1 on this. maybe not quite as heated about it but I'll stay clear of any ammo that's got a cute label on it for personal defense.

  13. #58
    Ex Member Array MP9NewMexico's Avatar
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    Check out the ballistics on the following rounds. Note that the FPS, ballistic coefficients, and other values are EXACTLY the same.
    Note also that Hornady states on the box "FOR USE ON ZOMBIES ONLY. Should NOT be used on plants, animals, or humans". That leads me to believe that if you were to use it in a SD shooting, that Hornady would not send a lawyer/technical expert/consultant to testify in your favor at the trial. They would simply say "Well, we said on the box NOT to use on humans. Not our problem." Also, I emailed Hornady about the Z-max and the powder is NOT the same; CD uses low-flash and short-barrel optimized powder, whereas Z-max does not.

    Also, think about the prosector saying "The shooter was equipped with ZOMBIE ammo folks. That's right. Not a common self-defense or police round, but ZOMBIE ammo. Does that say something about his state of mind". Or something similar.


    9mm Critical Defense
    9mm Zombie-Max

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmxer85 View Post
    I had to have a box of it.

    Do I think it has any shred of seriousness? No.
    Would it still go bang? Yep. (will my personal box get fired....doubtfull)
    Is it hilarious? I think so.

    Will i buy another box of it? Most definitely not.
    That about sums it up for me.

    I'm not carrying it in my EDC. It just goes on the shelf for a few laughs. And on sale, it actually cost me about the same as my target rounds, so if I ever end up strapped for ammo and using them, I won't be heart-broken.

  15. #60
    Member Array sp3ak's Avatar
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    I think they are funny. I will buy a box just for that, because they are funny. I will fire a few at the range just to say I did then leave them on the shelf like most others.

    If the whole zombie thing ever happens, guess I'll be ready?

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