10mm Self Defense Ammo ( what do you carry?) - Page 2

10mm Self Defense Ammo ( what do you carry?)

This is a discussion on 10mm Self Defense Ammo ( what do you carry?) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Has anyone had any experience with the double tap 10mm 165gr brass jacketed hollow point? ( I see they have them listed as using the ...

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Thread: 10mm Self Defense Ammo ( what do you carry?)

  1. #16
    Member Array gregcheck's Avatar
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    Has anyone had any experience with the double tap 10mm 165gr brass jacketed hollow point? ( I see they have them listed as using the golden saber bullet)I've always had a soft spot for the golden saber bullet, I have them in a few calibers & they always functioned well feeding & so on.... just wondering if anyone out there has tried them
    G


  2. #17
    Member Array gregcheck's Avatar
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    I have another question in regards to ammo, does anyone who sells nickel cased self defense ammo other than the watered down federal 10mm hydroshock, or double tap? ( I have some double tap coming to me & I hope its not a disappointment)I like the idea of the nickel case being less likely corrode & I've heard they are smoother feeding because of the plating also,
    any insight is welcome
    G

  3. #18
    Member Array papahawk's Avatar
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    Greg, You might try Cor-Bon.
    MIA/POW , Bring em home or Send us back

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    I had heard some people complain that the 165gr GS was made for .40 S&W velocities and was prone to come apart at 10mm speeds. I personally don't mind a bit of fragmentation in a high energy defense load like the 10mm. I haven't seen any proof of problems, just online arguments.

    I do know that if you call Double Tap, you'll find a smart person on the line that can probably answer any questions you have. I did that when I was looking for a defense load when I had a serious hand injury. Call and ask someone who knows, their customer service is awesome.
    Try not to screw up so bad they name the screw up after you. (Station 15 saying)

    NRA Certifed Instructor

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    I just window-shop with 10mm as self-defense, so I've not played with it as much as others. I'd consider it for bear country, but that's about it.

    The more I think about the theory behind DTs Equalizer, the more I think it's pretty sound. Either round is less likely to over-penetrate, and both bullets (independently) seem to fit the recommendations for 'capable of incapacitating'. Not bears, obviously, but two wounds channels seem to be just what would improve a round
    The only acceptable long-term outcome is to find a cure. It's an actual solution, requiring forward-thinking efforts.

    Until then, we're just arguing about who's pushing who.


  6. #21
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregcheck View Post
    Has anyone had any experience with the double tap 10mm 165gr brass jacketed hollow point? ( I see they have them listed as using the golden saber bullet)I've always had a soft spot for the golden saber bullet, I have them in a few calibers & they always functioned well feeding & so on.... just wondering if anyone out there has tried them
    G
    See post #5....

    I like them, very accurate out of my Dan Wesson.
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    Out of all the 10mm ammo that I've had over 15 years or so.

    I always liked shooting the mid-weight Speer 165 Gold Dot as loaded by DT.

    Seemed to be as fast as any 155s that I could load up, and hit like the 180s on non animal targets.

    My 200 gr Hornady XTP hand loads seemed more suited to Deer, or Black Bear but I never got a chance at one.

    The DT 165 GDs could probably anchor one as well..
    and still serve quite nicely as a home defense or carry load that wouldn't over-penetrate like the
    heavier loads.

    This was before the Barnes/DT TAC-XPs that I load my 9mm and .357 SIGs with these days, but DT Gold Dots
    are my second choice in a bullet and I really don't think that one can go wrong with them.


    Mike calls them Bonded Defense and now has many calibers in stock.

    DoubleTap Ammunition
    ---------------


    Best of luck with your ammo decision, nice to see that someone is still shooting a 10mm.

    KEV


  8. #23
    Member Array gregcheck's Avatar
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    I got a chance to shoot a few double tap 165gr BJHP rounds and compare them to the
    winchester silvertip HP. I've seen the bashing for the current double tap ammo in a few places, but I have to say after shooting both the DT 165gr & the W/STHP I'm now going to use the double tap ammo for self defense. Now I don't have any way of testing the velocity of the ammo but in comparrison to the STHP the double tap was right there with it in the recoil. The DT just grouped better out of my kimber stainless target two, I was shooting paper plates at 12 yards. Just for * & giggles I used two pieces of HARD oak boards ( back to back ) each 2.5" thick to attach the plates to ( now I know this isn't an "offical" test) & I was suprised to see that both the 175gr STHP & the DT 165 BJHP went into the board roughly the same distance right about 2 1/4~ 2 3/8 inches with a full mushroom(I would expect any different) & NO jacket separation from neither round tested.
    For the hell of it I also tried the buffalo bore 220gr hard cast lead round, that too was very accurate and it went thru one 2 1/2" board & continued through the second board for another 1 3/4" which was & is suprising to me. I guess because of the penetration difference between the 3 loads, I never expected it to go that far.
    Like I said I know its not a offical test, just a quick comparison, & none of the three different loads ever gave me any FTF or FTE or any sort if issue for that matter its just the fact the DT grouped better for me personally
    G

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Try their 180 weight controlled expansion stuff. They were using the awesome Nosler bullet for this load. To my way of thinking, it's the best of both worlds.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  10. #25
    New Member Array JRA300's Avatar
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    You may be a little mixed up on this. Generally, lighter faster bullets will penetrate more, with heavier slower bullets penetrating less. (many think the opposite) So, go heavier and slow down to avoid over penetration (185-200gr - Hollow).

  11. #26
    New Member Array JRA300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregcheck View Post
    I'm noticing that everyone seems to like the heavier bullets, is there any reason for that?
    The below is a link to you tube showing a 170gr pmc hp hitting some gel, pretty interesting to see in slow motion.
    Do you think a double tap 135gr hp would do anything close to this? Like I mentioned I'm a little concerned about
    over penetrating... that being said I don't want to go to a hydro-shock( not knocking the bullet design) because ballistics are pretty much a 40 s&w I want to stick to a "true" 10mm load & compensate over penetration by reducing bullet weight... do you think the over penetration is really something I should be concerned with? Should I maybe go with a corbon 150gr, so as I'm not too lite in the bullet weight?
    G

    SLOW MOTION 10mm Auto PMC 170gr JHP impacting ballistic gelatin - YouTube
    -- Overpenetration concerns seem to be the reason. My feeling is that most people do not carry enough penetration to stop a threat in a barrier laden world (store merchandise, furniture, walls, windows, cars, ..) and the myth of bullet through the wall hurting the neighbors dog is exaggerated.

  12. #27
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRA300 View Post
    You may be a little mixed up on this. Generally, lighter faster bullets will penetrate more, with heavier slower bullets penetrating less. (many think the opposite) So, go heavier and slow down to avoid over penetration (185-200gr - Hollow).
    There is some truth to this statement, but the bullet design is the biggest factor in determining penetration depth. Saying ALL heavier bullets penetrate less than lighter weight bullets is false.

    I carry heavy for caliber HSTs. They expand to a greater diameter than other 147gr (9mm) or 180gr (.40) loads and therefor give less penetration than the same weight bullets of other designs. 124gr HSTs penetrate deeper than 147gr HSTs in ballistic tests I've seen. 147gr XTPs would give deep penetration because they only expand to 1.5x original diameter. HSTs penetrate to 2x original diameter.

    Velocity increases the speed of expansion then quickens the deceleration of the bullet. Less mass means it's easier for the bullet to slow down. If a bullet fragments and does not retain all of it's weight it will lose velocity even quicker.

    This 10mm round would give lower penetration, assuming it expands as it's designed to: DoubleTap Ammunition

    This is a round I would suspect of giving lower penetration, but because it is solid copper, I am not sure:DoubleTap Ammunition

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRA300 View Post
    You may be a little mixed up on this. Generally, lighter faster bullets will penetrate more, with heavier slower bullets penetrating less. (many think the opposite) So, go heavier and slow down to avoid over penetration (185-200gr - Hollow).
    Actually, it is you that is mixed up; lighter, faster bullets tend to penetrate less than slower, heavier bullets--all other things being equal.



    Note that the slower, heavier 147gr 9mm outpenetrates both the lighter, faster 124gr 9mm round, as well as the MUCH faster .357 Sig round (which is also a 9mm bullet).

    Same with the .40--the 180gr .40 outpenetrates the faster 165gr bullet.

    If you compared a 185gr .45 and a 230gr, the same thing would be witnessed...10mm's would go the same way as well.
    FNORD likes this.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    That chart is pretty old, but some people still use it.

    Looks like all the bullets were SXTs or even Black Talons.

    I still think that 165 is a sweet spot for a all-around 10mm load.


  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Close.

    Ranger-T.

    Still applicable.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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