Fastest potential incapacitation 45 or 10mm ?

This is a discussion on Fastest potential incapacitation 45 or 10mm ? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by deadguy Yes, it indeed was a joke based on the question asked in the subject line. As a person with a twisted ...

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Thread: Fastest potential incapacitation 45 or 10mm ?

  1. #61
    Member Array GutshotJohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadguy View Post
    Yes, it indeed was a joke based on the question asked in the subject line.
    As a person with a twisted sense of humor, I might suggest, in the future, that if you want to tell a joke, it helps for it to actually be funny.

    Just a thought. :)

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GutshotJohn View Post
    As a person with a twisted sense of humor, I might suggest, in the future, that if you want to tell a joke, it helps for it to actually be funny.

    Just a thought. :)
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  4. #63
    Member Array GutshotJohn's Avatar
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    Actually no. Just having a little fun at your expense. Enjoy ;)

  5. #64
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GutshotJohn View Post
    Actually no. Just having a little fun at your expense. Enjoy ;)
    Carry on.
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  6. #65
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    From the OP, it sounds like the 10mm round will hit nanoseconds faster, and so has the fastest potential incapacitation.
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  7. #66
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    I think the OP was either trolling or just looking to set up a stupid, never ending thread. Like, "If Superman & Mighty Mouse got in a fight who would win? Or maybe it was an exercise for a psychology class.

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    I think the OP was either trolling or just looking to set up a stupid, never ending thread. Like, "If Superman & Mighty Mouse got in a fight who would win? Or maybe it was an exercise for a psychology class.
    Neither: Wonder Dog rules!

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    I think the OP was either trolling or just looking to set up a stupid, never ending thread. Like, "If Superman & Mighty Mouse got in a fight who would win? Or maybe it was an exercise for a psychology class.
    I don't. I think it's a perfectly legitimate question, honestly. The question "all else being equal, which is the better round?" is a fair question. I mean, if the comparison was between a BB gun and a .22 LR, we'd all choose the .22 LR as being 'obviously' better. So, such a comparison should be possible with different rounds, too.

    My problem with the OP is that I wouldn't want a 10mm SD gun that delivered the same kinetic energy as a light .45 acp round. The pistols are different tools, so they should be used differently.
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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    I don't. I think it's a perfectly legitimate question, honestly. , which is the better round?" is a fair question. I mean, if the comparison was between a BB gun and a .22 LR, we'd all choose the .22 LR as being 'obviously' better. So, such a comparison should be possible with different rounds, too.

    My problem with the OP is that I wouldn't want a 10mm SD gun that delivered the same kinetic energy as a light .45 acp round. The pistols are different tools, so they should be used differently.
    If that is what you really think then you too are missing the point.

    Go back and re-read posts #2 and #49.

    "all else being equal"
    The exact point the opposition is trying to make is that all else is not equal and it never will be. The best tool to stop the BG for you may be very different than for me. There is no set answer because "all else" in not equal in real life.

    The gun and caliber (in a recognized SD chambering) that you shoot the best is going to be the one that stops the BG the fastest. PERIOD. There is nothing else to add to this conversation that won't be a waste of oxygen.
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  11. #70
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    The gun and caliber (in a recognized SD chambering) that you shoot the best is going to be the one that stops the BG the fastest. PERIOD. There is nothing else to add to this conversation that won't be a waste of oxygen.
    Curious what you consider "a recognized SD chambering". I don't think .380 is good for SD (not trying to start something) nor .32. Others do.
    And starting a thread whether you think it is a waste of Oxygen is irrelevent. The mods can decide. I for one sometimes think people repeat themselves and it turns into a love fest, hate fest, but almost always somebody brings up a unique point. That by itself makes it worth reading.

    This is from post 49:
    To phrase the answer better I will explain it like this. THERE IS NO ANSWER! The variables of stopping a BG depend more on your ability to get good hits AND the BGs physiology, determination and blood chemistry (and a host of other factors).

    hmmmmmmmmmmmm so, do you want to eliminate any conversations on the talk about caliber/type of bullet? Newbies might be interested. The industry is changing all the time with new things. And some people just like to read about it and have a conversation. If it bores you skip the thread and move on.

    BTW: It is not a waste oxygen, it would be a waste of bandwidth and server space

  12. #71
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Curious what you consider "a recognized SD chambering". I don't think .380 is good for SD (not trying to start something) nor .32.
    yeeeeeeep

    To phrase the answer better I will explain it like this. THERE IS NO ANSWER! The variables of stopping a BG depend more on your ability to get good hits AND the BGs physiology, determination and blood chemistry (and a host of other factors).
    I agree. A BG on aspirin, blood thinners, or blitzed on alcohol will bleed out much faster than one that isn't. it COULD happen.
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  13. #72
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    If that is what you really think then you too are missing the point.
    Er, no, I am completely understanding the point. Given that people are worried that the .380 is not really an SD calibre, but a 9mm IS, there's clearly a difference between rounds. I've already answered the OP, I think the ability to align a second shot is more important when dealing with these two rounds. But, the OP wants to know if one bullet is more likely to be superior just based on its kinetics. I think theres an answer, even if it's not very significant.
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  14. #73
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Seriously...? 10mm or .45. Either one will do the job equally well if placed in the same spot. Hell, even a 9mm will do the same 99.99% of the time if placed in the same spot. If I had to choose just one, it'd be the 10mm for the energy dump, just icing on the cake IMO so why not take it. Or, here's a thought. Step up to the .45+p and start all over again.
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  15. #74
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    I don't think anyone is talking about "eliminating" any conversation. The issue for newbies is that they get wrapped around the axle on whether 10mm offers a millisecond faster incapacitation when we aren't even sure they can hit what they're shooting at and so they're putting the cart before the horse. The focus of the newbie shoot be on receiving quality firearms training and then practicing what they've learned. No matter how many times you try to tell them this, they think that some "magic" bullet will make up for their lack of training and so it gets a bit tedious after a while as the more experienced shooters are trying to give them the benefit of that experience.

    Was the OP asking a different question...maybe but I genuinely wish however that people would simply drop the whole KE/Velocity/Energy Dump issue. Yes all other things being equal, more KE will yield slightly better results most of the time but it's simply not even close to the most important factor. Functionally there is very little difference between any quality defensive bullet north of 9mm.

    It doens't help when the OP in question starts arguing with people when they try to give him the answer he NEEDS, even if it's not the answer he WANTS.
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  16. #75
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GutshotJohn View Post
    I don't think anyone is talking about "eliminating" any conversation. The issue for newbies is that they get wrapped around the axle on whether 10mm offers a millisecond faster incapacitation when we aren't even sure they can hit what they're shooting at and so they're putting the cart before the horse. The focus of the newbie shoot be on receiving quality firearms training and then practicing what they've learned. No matter how many times you try to tell them this, they think that some "magic" bullet will make up for their lack of training and so it gets a bit tedious after a while as the more experienced shooters are trying to give them the benefit of that experience.

    Was the OP asking a different question...maybe but I genuinely wish however that people would simply drop the whole KE/Velocity/Energy Dump issue. Yes all other things being equal, more KE will yield slightly better results most of the time but it's simply not even close to the most important factor. Functionally there is very little difference between any quality defensive bullet north of 9mm.

    It doens't help when the OP in question starts arguing with people when they try to give him the answer he NEEDS, even if it's not the answer he WANTS.

    Why drop it from the conversation; it's part of the particular rounds ballistics. Just because the guy doesn't want to hear it is not my concern, it's the facts for the rounds in question. And fact is; the 10mm hits harder than the standard pressure .45, end of story. And all things being equal, it will do it all the time not just most of the time...Not trying to split hairs here, but I'll not mind my thought process regarding facts just because someone else don't agree, or doesn't want to hear it. The guy wants to know what round will drop a man faster. I dare say that there's no one on this plant that can truly answer that due to variables and factors beyond anyone's ability to calculate with any degree of accuracy. For that reason alone the question is moot and what's left is (what round has the better ballistic characteristics outa the exact same firearm) which in this case would be the 10mm... Just sayin.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

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