9mm Luger via a LEO's perspective - Page 3

9mm Luger via a LEO's perspective

This is a discussion on 9mm Luger via a LEO's perspective within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently started the "slow carb" diet, so I'll have celery instead of popcorn, thanks!...

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Thread: 9mm Luger via a LEO's perspective

  1. #31
    Member Array Ishmael's Avatar
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    I recently started the "slow carb" diet, so I'll have celery instead of popcorn, thanks!


  2. #32
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    Just like multistage said,choose a round you are comfortable with,the g17 likes,then if the time comes and you need to defend yourself,dont fire one round,you need "Multiple Stimulous",until the threat is stopped,remember to incorporate this in your training.
    64zebra likes this.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    With all due respect, everything you mention I have read in one form or another about every two months on DC. My question to you was why in the was someone wearing all that clothing you mention above in the deep south?
    "POR BOY" body armour
    C hawk Glock and 64zebra like this.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post

    Officer Wolfe, I hope you process evidence and write reports better than this posting shows; I truly hope you know more about evidence handling, writing reports and court testimony than you do about handguns and shooting.
    WOW. I did not know that internet posts should comply with the Federal Rules of Evidence.

    I'm not stating the CDWolfe is an expert. However, if you are going to quibble with the technical definition of "Expert" then I suggest you review the federal rules of evidence that apply.

    Finally, my sympathies for your Wheaties and the obvious indignity they endured this morning.
    OldVet, Buckj and 64zebra like this.

  5. #35
    Member Array Illusive Man's Avatar
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    This is a very interesting post for me. Twice I have been on the range with my G22. Although I can hit my target, follow up shots are slow. I find the .40 harsh to shoot and was seriously considering selling it and gettting the G19. I've also decided on the EMP and will most likely be getting that in a 9mm too. I used to get caught up in the caliber arguments and am now finally forced to consider what I can shoot well with and control. As much as I like the G22 it will be the G19 for me soon.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDWolfe View Post
    A lot of this is random thoughts and experiences typed out, but I wanted to make a case from real world experiences that it does not matter what you choose to carry, just make sure you can hit what you are aiming at and to keep on shooting until the bad guy is no longer a threat. We do not train to fire 1 shot, look at the target to see if it is a 1 hit stop, and then to react with some more shots.
    Very well said. Stop the threat by hitting your target whether it's with 9mm, 45, rocks, sticks, rotten eggs, or my teenagers dirty socks. You ain't gonna hurt it if at first you can't hit it
    64zebra and CommonMan101 like this.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Officer Wolfe, I hope you process evidence and write reports better than this posting shows; I truly hope you know more about evidence handling, writing reports and court testimony than you do about handguns and shooting.
    Lighten up Francis I appreciate both of your opinions, but no need to slam the guy.
    64zebra and CommonMan101 like this.
    "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands. " Col. Jeff Cooper

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  8. #38
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    I think those of us in LE see pretty much the same thing over the years, all of which doesn't answer any questions as to caliber choice or design of bullet.

    I agree with the 9mm as a good round, particularly in the heavy loadings.

    What I don't like is the assumption that one who uses a bigger caliber may not get as many hits on target. This is purely a training issue. More hits on target is something that we hear of alot these days, mostly perpetrated by fast shooting, low drag, so called defensive combat schools, who in actuality, bear little resemblemce with the typical civillian self defense needs of today. Actually, they are conducted more like police/ military needs.

    The reality of all of this translates into everyday Sam and Suzy Citizen, reading and taking all of this in, and feel that if they are not armed with something resembling a military or police sidearm, will not make it back from the grocery store, or run out of ammo before they can get to their car at Wally World.

    It is a shame, that so many have fallen into this BS. I believe that just about every single person would be just as well off armed with a good 38spl revolver, loaded with some standard velocity heavy lead swc bullets, that they could shoot cheaply, and shoot proficiently , with an emphasis on making the first shot count.

    Many people just buy these high tech , hi cap bottom feeders because they just like guns. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with big bullets either.

    But God help us, when we allow people to believe if they don't have this gun, in that caliber that they are not well armed.
    21bubba, mkh, rstanek and 10 others like this.
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  9. #39
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    Not going argue this one.
    My Para SF double stack 45 shot very smooth and repeated shots with it are easier than mt LCP380.
    Problem is the Para is to darn big for me as a CC most of the times I settle for a 9mm most of the time.
    124 JHP if that don't do it the I guess I am done for.

  10. #40
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    Oh, quibble, quibble, quibble!

    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    No, it's second best... The .357 magnum is the best...
    In point of fact, the Coonan and Desert Eagle notwithstanding, the .357 Magnum round is the best of all revolver rounds made. With the possible exception of the .44 Special - shine it's light on me!

    You will note I did stipulate 'semi-automatic pistol', did I not? Of course, there are more revolvers that will fire .45 ACP than autos that will fire .357 Magnum.

    Seriously, Gottab, I would - and have, and still do - take a proper loaded .357 Magnum (145 to 160 grain bullets in either jacketed hollowpoint or simple SWC lead at reasonably full charges) for defense without a qualm. I also have a S&W Second Model Hand Ejector in .44 Special that I trust. It's a little large for concealment, but it depends on what I'm wearing.
    gottabkiddin likes this.
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  11. #41
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  12. #42
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    CDWolfe - thank you for your well thought out, informative post on an obviously sensitive topic. Don't let the idiots who want to pick apart your post and question your ability to follow the Federal Rules of Evidence discourage you.

    For me, I am comfortable with the ballistics of a 9mm and more importantly, comfortable with my budget to shoot it on a regular basis. This may not apply to all, but my pockets do have bottoms. For my 'range budget' the ability to send 4000 9mm down range + a lesson with a good instructor every month or so vs 3000 of a .45 without any ongoing instruction is enough to make the 9mm my choice. FOR ME, A capable ammo combined with significantly more practice outweighs a more potent ammo alone. This is the same reason I have overlooked a pocket 380, while it may be more than capable, the increased ammo cost and taking away practice time from my primary carry weapon did not outweigh the occasional convenience of a smaller gun.

  13. #43
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    WARNING: Pot stirring ahead. Not to be confused with caliber wars.

    9mm vs .40 vs .45= Just get a 357Sig and be done with it. One man's opinion, nothing against any of the afore mentioned rounds.
    multistage likes this.

  14. #44
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    Perhaps a vulture dinosaur?

    No one whizzed in my Wheaties. However, I take very serious exception to someone pretending to have expertise and then issuing nonsense. Especially when the nonsense will get my people injured or killed. You see, I've worked for Officer Wolfe's older brother. Or someone who could pass for his older brother.

    What Officer Wolfe expressed in his original posting is merely his opinion, padded with the veneer of being a real police officer. He writes as if to set all of us ignernt people right, and does not present any serious facts or evidence to sustain his claims. Some of his claims, like my .40 S&W pistol recoils more than a .45 ACP, are just flat wrong.

    Did anyone notice that? Did anyone read my entire post, other than Glockman10mm? Did anyone read Officer Wolfe's? He presents 'observations' which are rather slanted views from a very limited perspective. No argument, no logic, no chain of thought. I'm not quibbling over his grammar, I'm bothered by his lack of observation and articulation. And - sorry to sound picky - he uses phrases he does not understand. (Be brave someone, look up the definition of 'point blank'.)

    I have preached the doctrine of good solid hits for years. Nothing will replace proper shooting. However, Officer Wolfe implies the only way to get good solid hits to revert to a lesser caliber. Sorry, that will not do. High capacity will not do. The .45 ACP he gave up on - rather than practice and learn better - wasn't magic and neither is the 9x19 he carries now because he thinks it will make him a better shooter. It won't, by the way.

    I am a dinosaur. I wear that title with honor. Being a dinosaur means I know how to shoot the rounds I've got, rather than plan a fast reload so I can blaze away some more. Being a dinosaur means I've learned from older dinosaurs, and not the current crop of training 'experts' who ignore all the hard learned lessons us old dinosaurs learned.

    Officer Wolfe won't read this. He will just comfort himself with calling me a 'vulture', since I disagree with him and have reasons for my opinions other than unexamined prejudices. I won't swallow his poorly considered thoughts without question. His ego is far too fragile and he knows he's lacking. Which will prevent him from admitting any mistakes or deficiencies he has and correcting them. He'll probably have a long career and be a 'manager' someday. Too bad for his subordinates.

    But I'm not trying to either offend Officer Wolfe or even get him to change what he thinks. I'm far more concerned about the other people reading this thread; I'd prefer you all to hear another side of things and find out things on your own. For that matter, don't accept everything I say; try it out and work at the problem instead of being convinced there's a golden gun or magic bullet. You're all big kids, think for yourselves.
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  15. #45
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    fanboy? I think not, Gunthorp

    Quote Originally Posted by gunthorp View Post
    So, let me get this right. If I use a 12 ga w/slugs in the house, an AR10 308 outside, and a 45 on the street, am I a fanboy times three?
    Not by me, Gunthorp. You're only a fanboy if you are so insecure you have to ridicule anyone who would even think of using something else, and you cannot consider the thought there may be another solution.

    Sounds to me like you've though things out. Now the only problem is - for all of us - to practice with one's chosen armament until we are as good as they are. I'm still working on it.
    gunthorp and OD* like this.
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