Mouse Ammo

This is a discussion on Mouse Ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Dumbledork Before this thread goes off on " I wouldn't use anything less than a .44 Magnum, because 9mm will only piss ...

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Thread: Mouse Ammo

  1. #16
    Member Array jasgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    Before this thread goes off on "I wouldn't use anything less than a .44 Magnum, because 9mm will only piss the bad guys off," I would ask that anyone who questions the wisdom of using a small caliber for self defense stand in front of a .25ACP and tell me how little it hurts.
    The only time one can legally employ deadly force is in the threat of bodily harm. Meaning that it mostly likely will be someone threatening with a gun or knife at close range. A .25ACP will put holes in a BG (and eventually may be fatal) but what are the chances of stopping a BG from inflicting harm before going down? Someone armed with a large knife can be very lethal at close range. Can better the odds and get something in the size of a .25ACP pistol in .32acp or .380 these days and use good hollowpoint ammo for a mouse gun. I use a Seecamp .32 if I have to carry a mouse gun. Look at this for some possible guns and compare with the size of your .25 gun: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...3ZDlm&hl=en_US

    It's chancy to count on drawing a gun will scare all BGs away. There's also the multiple assailant scenario too (like 2 BGs) where stopping power employing double-taps might be important.

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  3. #17
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  4. #18
    Member Array WillyNilly's Avatar
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    Long ago I had a Titan .25 and in my backyard I shot a gallon jug of solid ice a few feet away. The bullet went through it and it was at an angle (jug on ground and me standing up). I was surprised that it went through and I shot it again, same thing. I don't remember what load it was but it had a little black ball in the tip.
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  5. #19
    Laz
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    a 25acp has under 65 pounds of energy vs a 22 LR of 100 or a 380 approaching 225.
    Given barrels of the same length, the above is not true. A 22 would produce energy very similar to slightly more than the 25 and the .380 would produce energy in the range of 100+ to 150 ft lbs. The 380 is clearly superior but there is no need to make the argument with false data. A 22 magnum from a short barrel is capable of producing 100 fpe but not a 22 LR.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    @WillyNilly, That would be the Winchester Expanding Point. A copper washed lead bullet with a pellet of shot crimped into the small hollow point tip. It penetrates, upsets, and usually tumbles. In the .25s I own that I could possibly use as a BUG, thats what I keep in it.

    I had considered using the Gold Dot and the 35gr XTP load thinking that the JHP design would be more likely to "dig in" to the skull and less likely to bounce off than an FMJ, but I think the Winchester is a better all around load. If you plan to use an FMJ, I don't think there's much difference between brands.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Plain 51 grain full metal jacket would serve far better than any expanding bullet offering. The first order of business is to insure adequate penetration.
    I agree..... I'm not here to tell you get something else.....it's what you have that's important. Truth be known, 22LR has many more lethal options and better pistols available IMO. "Pocket pistols" can be had in 9mm now. Wouldn't mind having a Kel Tec myself. 25 or 32acp would be FMJ for me. .380 auto and I might look into expanding (PD) ammo. Most firearms designed for the 25-32acp are not constructed to hold up for repeated firings at the range with basic ammo much less + ammo. Why your choice of pistol and ammo might get bad reviews or few responses? 25acp might as well be hand to hand combat for me unless I shoot for the head at 3m or less. Anything is better than nothing, but we can't get more out of nothing if anything is the best we can do.

  9. #23
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    Hi Ram Rod;

    It would be difficult to assign any loading of either the .22 Long Rifle or the .25 as more lethal given the barrel length common to the breed. Barely lethal is more to the point. Of course barely lethal could be enough to lay one out.

    When you say "better pistols" are you selecting from those currently being produced? The high quality, well made steel .25 ACP pistols formerly common were constructed to hold up for repeated firings. They're still holding up long years after they were discontinued.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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  10. #24
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    For what it's worth, I just finished chronographing three factory loads of .25 ACP; all 50 grain FMJ style. Mag Tech was the fastest, with an average of 834 f/s. Second was Olin (Winchester White Box) at 766 f/s and Aguila at 758 f/s. All these from a older Beretta 418 with a 2 3/8 inch barrel.
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  11. #25
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    For what it's worth, I just finished chronographing three factory loads of .25 ACP; all 50 grain FMJ style. Mag Tech was the fastest, with an average of 834 f/s. Second was Olin (Winchester White Box) at 766 f/s and Aguila at 758 f/s. All these from a older Beretta 418 with a 2 3/8 inch barrel.
    I've seen the Magtech in my local shop, but didn't know much about it. I picked up a box of steel cased American Eagle, and a box of Hornadys, just to test them for feeding, accuracy, and penetration (wet phonebooks and frozen water bottles). The Hornadys didn't penetrate much, but expanded pretty reliably. The cheaper American Eagle had better penetration. I think I'll pick up a box of the Magtechs and try them out.

    RamRod, if I were shooting a POS Saturday Night Special, like a Raven, I might agree that repeated firing would probably be a bad idea, but the .25 in question is a Baby Browning, which is of considerably higher quality, and all steel construction.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laz View Post
    Given barrels of the same length, . . . A 22 would produce energy very similar to slightly more than the 25
    Not true grasshopper.

    the 25 ACP has significantly more energy that a 22lr. They typically have similar velocity, but the 25 ACP has a larger bullet - hence more energy.

    Typical 25 is 50 grains. typical 22LR is 35 grains

    In a 2-inch bbl, both will be at about 800 FPS

    BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .25 Auto Results
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  13. #27
    Member Array crstrode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Hi Ram Rod;

    It would be difficult to assign any loading of either the .22 Long Rifle or the .25 as more lethal given the barrel length common to the breed. Barely lethal is more to the point.
    .
    Don't tell that to Bobby Kennedy. He was murdered with a 22 rimfire pistol
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  14. #28
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  15. #29
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    I'd get whatever cheapest FMJ was available, and test it for reliability.

    But really I would never carry a 25 ACP.

    Austin

  16. #30
    Member Array Dave James's Avatar
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    Use the Winchester Pellet Point or the Gold DOT, and stick in their eye/ear/throat, from personal experience, it will make all but the crazies back off and or die

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