Quick Question - Which one? 45 acp or 357 mag

This is a discussion on Quick Question - Which one? 45 acp or 357 mag within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have seen the penetration capabilities of the heavy hard cast bullets in a .357. For that reason I'd take the .357 every time. Michael...

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Thread: Quick Question - Which one? 45 acp or 357 mag

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I have seen the penetration capabilities of the heavy hard cast bullets in a .357. For that reason I'd take the .357 every time.

    Michael

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Having spent a great deal of my life in the Rockies, I would never trust a handgun to bail me out of a bear scrap. Hunting a bear who is unaware of your presence is one thing. Stopping one who is determined to carve you up is something else entirely. But do as you will (12 gauge, hint hint).

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Seeing as the 357 is a shorter barrel, I would go with the .45
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    My vote is G21. But I suggest one of these:
    G21/21SF KKM 10MM Match Grade Conversion Barrel-www.glockmeister.com
    With a few of these:
    G20/20SF GLOCK Factory Magazine 15 Round-www.glockmeister.com
    Loaded with these:
    Heavy 10mm Pistol & Handgun Ammunition


    I own this combination for my G30SF. That is what I would take.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
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  6. #20
    Member Array greybeard43's Avatar
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    Use the buffalo bore heavy .357 load. It is designed to stop a bear. The modern powder they are using cuts down on recoil and muzzle blast. I have read that this round will stop a grizzly although I wouldn't choose it. I have read that a guide has stopped more than one grizzly with a .357 and a heavy hard cast bullet by shooting them in the hump and breaking the spine. Again I wouldn't choose it. A .454 casull in ruger redhawk would be my bear choice but that is not an option in this thread.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightrider View Post
    Seeing as the 357 is a shorter barrel, I would go with the .45
    Are you certain about that? Revolvers and pistols have the barrel length measured differently. To get the same measurement as a pistol you need to include the cylinder length with the barrel length of the revolver.

    The .357 mag cylinder typically adds just over 1.3" to the barrel length when comparing the different measurements of pistols vs revolvers.

    More importantly, the same truth holds true for surviving an incident with a bear vs a human threat. Shot placement. More is not always better.

    In fact, the best bear defense guns hold far less rounds than pistols. Revolvers have a similar, or greater, round capacity as well. Rifles and shotguns are far better to defend against predatory animals and they typically hold fewer rounds if you don't go with aftermarket magazines. You need to hit what you are aiming at. If you don't, you have a club.

    Not only that, revolvers are more reliable than pistols in the field. Less can go wrong if the weather is not the best. Revolvers almost always go bang while pistols can jam. Are you going to have time to clear a jam when seconds matter?

    More importantly, what kind of bears are we talking about? Brown or black? Black bears are sissies and go down pretty easily. They also tend to avoid people if you make a moderate amount of noise as you move about. Twenty plus years of walking in the Wisconsin backwoods has proven that to be true. You are more likely to have to deal with the pot growers these days than black bears in the Wisconsin woods, and the black bear population is at an all time high to boot.

  8. #22
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    For years my TN relatives killed black bears with a .22 mag--but none of them were pissed off from a blast of bear spray in the face. In your scenerio it won't make much difference ( i'd prefer the one with most rounds), just shoot.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    SFury, revolvers have something that autos do not that negates the cylinder length. It's called cylinder gap, or the space in between the forcing cone and the cylinder that gas escapes from. This loss of gas reduces the overall pressure of the cartridge. It must be factored into the grand scheme of things.

    As a point of interest, Double Tap makes a hardcast 45 acp load that will definetly make it worthy to carry in black bear country. Actually it takes the 45acp to a completely different level.

    Additionally, last time I checked, the barrel length on a revolver was measured from the end of the forcing cone to the end of the muzzle.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    We're all looking at this wrong.

    All one needs is to do shoot their least favorite buddy in the foot, and run like hell...

    A .22 derringer is all that's needed.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    SFury, revolvers have something that autos do not that negates the cylinder length. It's called cylinder gap, or the space in between the forcing cone and the cylinder that gas escapes from. This loss of gas reduces the overall pressure of the cartridge. It must be factored into the grand scheme of things.

    As a point of interest, Double Tap makes a hardcast 45 acp load that will definetly make it worthy to carry in black bear country. Actually it takes the 45acp to a completely different level.

    Additionally, last time I checked, the barrel length on a revolver was measured from the end of the forcing cone to the end of the muzzle.
    That's why the tests are all done with the measurements being taken downrange. For all types of firearms. That gap is irrelevant due to how the information is gathered. To even mention it makes no sense to me.

    Well, they do take readings at the barrel, but then again, that is at the end of the barrel itself. That means the data gathered is after the loss due to the cylinder gap once again.

    My statement is accurate as well. Comparing barrel lengths in a psitol vs a revolver is comparing apples to oranges. They are indeed measured differently.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    SFury, as you choose to believe. There's only so much that can be done with that. Carry on sir.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Whatever you carry, just make sure you have it in your hand when the bear charges out of the brush. If you are charged you only have a second or two at the most. Bears are faster than most people can imagine. A handgun should only be a last resort/backup if charged by an angry black bear. Hi cap semi auto in 10 mm or 45 acp for me. Fire as many as fast as you can before it hits you like a Mack truck.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    My vote is G21. But I suggest one of these:
    G21/21SF KKM 10MM Match Grade Conversion Barrel-www.glockmeister.com
    With a few of these:
    G20/20SF GLOCK Factory Magazine 15 Round-www.glockmeister.com
    Loaded with these:
    Heavy 10mm Pistol & Handgun Ammunition


    I own this combination for my G30SF. That is what I would take.
    Since I own a G21, I just may invest in the conversion barrel and magazine. Looks like a winner to me!
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkruf View Post
    Just a quick choice.. if you "HAD TO" shoot, after using Bear Spray (and it didn't work) a black bear. Say 500 lb or less. If you had the choice, while hiking, to carry either a 3" SP101 .357 or a Glock 21 .45ACP, which one would you carry?

    Do not want to carry a 44 Mag due to size/weight. In fact lets say you have to carry concealed as well because of where you are hiking. 44 Mag is just so big and heavy, and has such recoil, I think if I even had time to get two shots off, the less recoil, the better. I don't think my 2nd shot with a 44 Mag, "if" I could conceal it and carry while hiking, would hit the mark.

    So between a .357 SP101 and a Glock 21 .45ACP, which would you suggest? Like I said, Bear spray would be my first "go to", for black bear 500 lb or less.
    From what I have read and seen of bear attacks, they are quick quick. Couple of examples:

    Raw video - 2 grizzly bears charge camera man - YouTube (One shot off!)

    Grizzly Brown Bear Bluff Charge, Katmai Alaska - YouTube (I'm all for nature, but these people are freakin' nuts!)

    What can the Tueller drill with a charging bear tell us?

    Yeah, these are Grizzlies... but still. By the time the beast is within the effective range of your choice of weapon, we're talking less than a second. Whether it's five or 13, I'd say you're getting two off, max. And definitely zero if the spray makes the bear attack.

    Find out which of the .357 and .45 can be loaded for the deepest penetration and go with that. Then, find a new place to go hiking.

  16. #30
    Member Array dwk5150's Avatar
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