Glaser Blue

This is a discussion on Glaser Blue within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a neighbor lady who recently got her CCW and she bought her first weapon to have at home which is a older 38spec. ...

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Thread: Glaser Blue

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    Question Glaser Blue

    I have a neighbor lady who recently got her CCW and she bought her first weapon to have at home which is a older 38spec. Her question to me was what about the Glaser Blue ? would that be good for home defense. I advised her she might want to have a smith check out her gun and I did not know what the pressures were in the Glasers. I contacted the company but over a wee now and no reply. I advised her that my wife liked Critical defense in her snibby 38. Any one have any info to share, it would be appreciated.

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  3. #2
    Member Array jasgo's Avatar
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    I think they offer it in both regular and +P loadings. As long as her gun is a modern design and of a reputable manufacturer, I wouldn't worry for occasional +P use in a steel frame revolver. If an airweight, I'd be very, very limited in usage.

    From experience, since the bullet is very light (and fast), will most likely shoot at a different point of impact than heavier bullets (most fixed sights are set for standard loadings like the 158gr). Won't matter at point blank but would if intending for more precise shot scenarios, can be a factor. Should shoot lower as the bullet leaves the barrel sooner during the recoil.

    Sometimes I'd load a defense gun with a glaser as the first round and then follow with JHP. Depends on what you are anticipating as a defense scenario.

    Speer sells a Gold Dot .38spec +p 135gr JHP especially for short barrels.

  4. #3
    sgb
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    Glasers and other pre-fragmented ammunition are long on hype and short on performance (penetration). Critical Defense is also short on penetration, the Speer Gold Dot .38spec +p 135gr JHP and the Corbon 110gr all copper DPX load are the only two I'm aware of that pass the FBI protocol which is the LE & SD use standard.
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    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Updated:

    From Dr. Roberts -

    There have been many reports in the scientific literature, by Dr. Fackler and others, recommending the 158 gr +P LSWCHP as offering adequate performance. Please put this in context for the time that these papers were written in the late 1980's and early 1990's--no denim testing was being performed at that time, no robust expanding JHP's, like the Barnes XPB, Federal Tactical & HST, Speer Gold Dot, or Win Ranger Talon existed. In the proper historical perspective, the 158 gr +P LSWCHP fired out 3-4" barrel revolvers was one of the best rounds available--and it is still a viable choice, as long as you understand its characteristics.

    While oversimplified, bare gelatin gives information about best case performance, while 4 layer denim provides data on worst case performance--in reality, the actual performance may be somewhere in between. The four layer denim test is NOT designed to simulate any type of clothing--it is simply an engineering test to assess the ability of a projectile to resist plugging and robustly expand. FWIW, one of the senior engineers at a very respected handgun ammunition manufacturer recently commented that bullets that do well in 4 layer denim testing have invariably worked well in actual officer involved shooting incidents.

    With few exceptions, the vast majority of .38 Sp JHP's fail to expand when fired from 2" barrels in the 4 layer denim test. Many of the lighter JHP's demonstrate overexpansion and insufficient penetration in bare gel testing. Also, the harsher recoil of the +P loads in lightweight J-frames tends to minimize practice efforts and decrease accuracy for many officers. The 158 gr +P LSWCHP offers adequate penetration, however in a 2" revolver the 158gr +P LSWCHP does not reliably expand. If it fails to expand, it will produce less wound trauma than a WC. Target wadcutters offer good penetration, cut tissue efficiently, and have relatively mild recoil. With wadcutters harder alloys and sharper leading edges are the way to go. Wadcutters perform exactly the same in both bare and 4 layer denim covered gel when fired from a 2" J-frame.

    When faced with too little penetration, as is common with lightweight .38 Sp JHP loads or too much penetration like with the wadcutters, then go with penetration. Agencies around here have used the Winchester 148 gr standard pressure lead target wadcutter (X38SMRP), as well as the Federal (GM38A) version--both work. A sharper edged wadcutter would even be better... Dr. Fackler has written in Fackler ML: "The Full Wadcutter--An Extremely Effective Bullet Design", Wound Ballistics Review. 4(2):6-7, Fall 1999)

    "As a surgeon by profession, I am impressed by bullets with a cutting action (eg. Winchester Talon and Remington Golden Saber). Cutting is many times more efficient at disrupting tissue than the crushing mechanism by which ordinary bullets produce the hole through which they penetrate. The secret to the increased efficiency of the full wadcutter bullet is the cutting action of its sharp circumferential leading edge. Actually, cutting is simply very localized crush; by decreasing the area over which a given force is spread, we can greatly increase the magnitude to the amount of force delivered per unit are--which is a fancy way of saying that sharp knives cut a lot better than dull ones. As a result, the calculation of forces on tissue during penetration underestimate the true effectiveness of the wadcutter bullet relative to other shapes."

    Currently, the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2” BUG; the Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B) and Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers.

    Source: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914
    Last edited by AZ Hawk; February 13th, 2012 at 06:11 PM.
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    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    Absolutely not.

    Choose from this list:

    Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
    Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
    Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD)
    Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
    Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
    Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
    Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
    Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
    Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
    Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
    Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
    Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
    Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

    From Dr. Roberts - Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

    Kind of hard to shoot 9x19mm out of a .38 special
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    Member Array true grit's Avatar
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    I like the use of silver Glasers as my first round in my revolvers. It has slightly less recoil than my Gold Dots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Glasers and other pre-fragmented ammunition are long on hype and short on performance (penetration). Critical Defense is also short on penetration, the Speer Gold Dot .38spec +p 135gr JHP and the Corbon 110gr all copper DPX load are the only two I'm aware of that pass the FBI protocol which is the LE & SD use standard.
    FBI Endorses the Winchester PDX1 130gr 38spl+p. They do not carry it but they endorse it.

    FYI: It is the same as the Winchester T-Series Bonded but the PDX1 is twice the price for half the rounds due to the endorsement.
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    I would look at Winchester Silver tip 110grain 38 spl or 125 grain 38 spl+p,if she is recoil sensitive then the 110 grain should do the job well as long as she does her part
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    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    FBI Endorses the Winchester PDX1 130gr 38spl+p. They do not carry it but they endorse it.

    FYI: It is the same as the Winchester T-Series Bonded but the PDX1 is twice the price for half the rounds due to the endorsement.

    I see it passes by manufacturers testing but sill looking for independent test verification.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  11. #10
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    When I carry my SP101 I carry 110gr DPX + P. Feels like your shooting regular target ammo recoil wise, and I think it's pretty established that the DPX line is a winner. But any name brand premium ammo is going to make holes.
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    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Kind of hard to shoot 9x19mm out of a .38 special
    Whoa. Thanks for pointing that out! I'd been discussing 9mm all day, and I must have been on autopilot.

    Updating as we speak.
    Last edited by AZ Hawk; February 13th, 2012 at 07:25 PM.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    If her first gun is a snub, then the recoil of a +P may be an issue. Glaser makes a non +P load in the blue, but there are other loads that are probably better for HD use. Try Federal's excellent Nyclad load. Lately it's been the most common non +P load. Some of the others (Winchester 110gr Silvertip, Fed 110gr HSHP, or Remington 110gr SJHP) are just always out of stock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Kind of hard to shoot 9x19mm out of a .38 special
    Actually it is VERY easy. Not only 9X19 but 20+ others. Google Medusa Handgun by Phillips & Rodgers

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    I guess I did not make things clear and I appreciate all the input but all I was trying for was pressure of the Blue. I did find out from a old gunsmith in Idaho that the standard Blue has low pressure and would be fine in the older pistol. Thanks for all the other info.

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    If its a steel frame Smith, even an older one, even +p loads will be OK. But I will say this, I have never been, nor will ever be, an advocate or endorser of any type of even HP pistol design over a hardcast SWC. However, I would rather have ANY, I repeat, ANY, conventional HP by any reputable manafactuer, in any weight, than a Glaser round.
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