interesting: 1987 FBI report on handgun ballistics

[1shooter]

ran across this while looking for the FBI's ammo choices

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

originally posted on:

Very Very cool article by the FBI on ammunition - TheFirearmsForum.Com

if you have seen it great! if you havent its a good read!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[jblives2ride]

link number one didn't open for me...

[1 old 0311]

Good read. Love reading that stuff.

[MrBuckwheat]

Good read. Love reading that stuff.

Agreed
I will save the pdf and pass it on.

[rolyat63]

Search this forum for HWFE and you should find the text of the report. It has been posted multiple times over the years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1shooter]

after reading this... does any one use flat points as a defencive or carry round? or is it still pretty much a hunting round?

[OldVet]

I bet Glockman10 hs his home wallpapered with copies of his report. And at the bottom he's written, "See? I told you so!"

[fastk9dad]

The last issue of American Rifleman had a good article written by one of the agents involved in the ballistic unit during that time.

[1shooter]

"penetration less then 12 inches is too little" - porn taught me this :-P

and

"too little penetration will get you killed" - my wife to be tells me this ;-)

there are just WAY TOO many of these jokes laying in wait in this atrical!

anyone else still 13 at heart?

[RKflorida]

link number one didn't open for me...

It doesn't open, it downloads a .PDF file to your computer.

[vanagonnuts]

hahaha, YES!

"penetration less then 12 inches is too little" - porn taught me this :-P

and

"too little penetration will get you killed" - my wife to be tells me this ;-)

there are just WAY TOO many of these jokes laying in wait in this atrical!
anyone else still 13 at heart?

But I use to carry flats that I hand loaded and shot them in a S&W model 10.

[zacii]

I've read this before, but thanks for posting it It is very good review material, especially since the latest caliber posts.

A few tidbits:

The critical wounding components for handgun ammunition, in order of importance, are penetration and permanent cavity

A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. ... The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball.

Psychological factors are probably the most important relative to achieving rapid incapacitation from a gunshot wound to the torso.... However, psychological factors are also the primary cause for incapacitation failures... The individual may be unaware of the wound and thus has no stimuli to force a reaction

[RKM]

I liked this:

Here is an example that illustrates how erroneous small samples can be. I flipped a penny 20 times. It came up heads five times. A nickel flipped 20 times showed heads 8 times. A dime came up heads 10 times and a quarter 15 times. That means if heads is the desired result, a penny will give it to you 25% of the time, and nickel 40% of the time, a dime 50% of the time and a quarter 75% of the time. If you want heads, flip a quarter. If you want tails, flip a penny. But then I flipped the quarter another 20 times and it showed heads 9 times - 45% of the time. Now this "study" would tell you that perhaps a dime was better for flipping heads. The whole thing is obviously wrong, but shows how small numbers lead to statistical lies. We know the odds of getting a head or tail are 50%, and larger numbers tend to prove it. Calculating the results for all 100 flips regardless of the coin used shows heads came up 48% of the time.

I'm not good with words, but this describes exactly what I feel about ballistics statics showing that (for example only) .22LR produces 52% stopping power of one stop shots 104 times out of 200, while .357 mag shows 55% stopping power with 1 shot stops 11 times out of 20. We all know a .357mag will likely give you a better results despite what my imaginary ballistics example shows. If the number of shootings aren't high and equal, "statistics" will never be accurate.

Exactly as this article states, penetration and shot placement will always be key. Caliber is almost a moot point. I do however believe some handgun calibers DO perform better than others, but by how much is pretty much negligible.

[mattbeals]

So maybe my rationale of carry 124gr NATO (+P) ball in lieu of super expanding jhp du jure has *some* (not necessarily full) merit. A very interesting read indeed, thank you for posting this.

[40Bob]

So maybe my rationale of carry 124gr NATO (+P) ball in lieu of super expanding jhp du jure has *some* (not necessarily full) merit. A very interesting read indeed, thank you for posting this.

Actually I would say it has no merit as a defensive round for a civilian in the US. Everyone knows that round is likely to over penetrate. I agree that we should not go out and buy the latest greatest JHP because Guns and Ammo said it was. The bullets that worked 15 years ago still work today ( 115 +p or 124+P JHP's). I would say that any cheap HP is at least as good if not better for defense than ANY ball ammo in the same caliber.