any legal technicalities concerning handloads?

any legal technicalities concerning handloads?

This is a discussion on any legal technicalities concerning handloads? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Folks, I'm pretty new to this forum and though I have had my CCW for 15 years I seldom see any need to carry on ...

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Thread: any legal technicalities concerning handloads?

  1. #1
    Member Array lazytl's Avatar
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    any legal technicalities concerning handloads?

    Folks, I'm pretty new to this forum and though I have had my CCW for 15 years I seldom see any need to carry on my person. Things are changing in my area so I am preparing for that eventuality. For a long time I was a moderator on a popular gun forum but busyness had kept me away for some time. I returned there recently and found a rather heated thread on whether or not there were any legal implications concerning handloaded ammunition in one's carry gun. Most of the LEOs and CCW instructor-types seemed to say avoid doing so just because its not necessary. The diehard handloaders, of course, objected to this. It got me to thinking: in my gun safe I have five rounds of hot handloads for my SP101 .357 and a half-used box of Black Talons. Are there legal implications, God Forbid, should I have to defend myself with deadly force and happen to use either the handloads or the Talons? If this has already been discussed ad infinitum then I apologize and will look for a link in the archives.


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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    You can't sue yourself if ir blows up in the chamber and you take an eye out

    I really don't know as long as you go by SAAMI. But I don't use my own hand loaded ammo in my carry weapons anyway.

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    I attended a class with Massod Ayoob about 10 years ago were he talked about being a defense witness where a man had shot someone,in self-defense,and the D.A. found out he had loaded his own S.D.ammo,was trying to make a case on merits that the defendent actually loaded this ammo to kill someone,saying that he had knowledge that it would be used to take a life.As for me,I'll spend 20.00 on a box of S.D.ammo and save the headache of listening to a D.A. drag me through the mud.
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    Not worth the potential headache. You don't have to buy your carry loads very often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockrocker View Post
    I attended a class with Massod Ayoob about 10 years ago were he talked about being a defense witness where a man had shot someone,in self-defense,and the D.A. found out he had loaded his own S.D.ammo,was trying to make a case on merits that the defendent actually loaded this ammo to kill someone,saying that he had knowledge that it would be used to take a life.As for me,I'll spend 20.00 on a box of S.D.ammo and save the headache of listening to a D.A. drag me through the mud.
    +1

    Yeah, I agree. I think I read something from Ayoob recently saying the same thing. I think he had a case about it. Really, why bother? Save $25 from rounds you carry?

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    I am also a hand loader! I use factory ammo in my carry guns for the same reason. I also have factory triggers on my carry guns. I don't want the weasle lawyer to stick it to me. I shoot a couple rounds of the carry ammo from time to time to make sure I know how to use it. I can also make a similar hand loaded practice ammo.

    I will be interesting to follow this thread see where it takes us.

  7. #7
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    I read about this in one of Massad Ayoob's books too. I agree with his assessment that your better off with purchased ammo for SD carry. While a good atty should be able to refute any argument that you loaded extra lethal rounds, do you want a jury to even hear the thought come up?

    For practice, use them but for carry spend the $25 and buy a box. If you can, use something similar but not the exact same thing as what your local LEO dept uses. The reasoning is similar: if it is good enough to protect them, it should be good to protect you too.

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    Member Array lazytl's Avatar
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    To further explain, I am a hand loader myself, so I don't have any issues there. I enjoy reloading and feel satisfaction in taking big game with my hand loads. Personally, I have several different boxes of self-defense ammo that I use in the rare times when I carry. For a long time I thought I would load my SP101 with the Black Talons in a home defense situation, but that seems like a poor choice now when I have Cor-Bon, Critical Defense, and Gold Dot ammo available. Why take the chance? My other concern was if a lethal force shooting was questioned and the shooter was known to be a hand loader, would a zealous (or well-paid) attorney begin investigating to see if the shooter had made any radical comments on gun forums? Some of the hand loaders on this other forum were getting so adamant I began thinking: "I would hate to hear those quotes brought up in a trial." (If this isn't the right forum for the question, I apologize. It probably should be on a legal affairs forum.)

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    No. Naturally any zealous attorney or prosecutor can attempt to make a major issue of anything that might sway a jury, but legalities?

    Other than a few states which have laws against hollow point bullets, etc., I don't know of any state that requires ammo to be factory loaded only, regardless of the intended use. Now if you made rounds spiked with murcury you could surely cause some issues that might come back to haunt you, but having reloads with commercial components or hand cast bullets in no way should invole any "legalities.

    Again, no matter where you live, always consult your state statutes in regard to this. I know in Fl the use of a firearm is deadly force--there is no mention antwhere of the type ammo.
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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    I don't have an issue carrying reloaded ammo in my carry gun. I've read plenty on the pros and cons of it and have decided its not an issue for me. Here in Arizona, we have pretty good laws and unless it is a "questionable" shoot, it is not going to be an issue.
    I think most folks would better spend their time and energy on training and situational awareness than bullet selection.
    Your state may vary.

    I can shoot ALOT more handloads (same as my carry) than if I shot $1/round SD amomo. I like knowing that I've shot hundreds of the same rounds that I carry.
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    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockrocker View Post
    I attended a class with Massod Ayoob about 10 years ago were he talked about being a defense witness where a man had shot someone,in self-defense,and the D.A. found out he had loaded his own S.D.ammo,was trying to make a case on merits that the defendent actually loaded this ammo to kill someone,saying that he had knowledge that it would be used to take a life.As for me,I'll spend 20.00 on a box of S.D.ammo and save the headache of listening to a D.A. drag me through the mud.
    Well telll me when you bought that box of ammo didn't you have the knowledge that it could be used to take a life!!! I don't buy the argument and it sounds too much like one of those articles on the internet. You know the ones this really happened to a guy I know whose wife's cousin's friend met a guy in a bar that heard a story about.........

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Massad Ayoob made one point when he advised against handloaded ammunition,when Police reconstruct a crime scene if its a fairly close gun shot there will be powder stippling,if you were using X brand of ammo they can use a box of the same factory ammo to tell what distance you were when you fired.
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    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Massad Ayoob made one point when he advised against handloaded ammunition,when Police reconstruct a crime scene if its a fairly close gun shot there will be powder stippling,if you were using X brand of ammo they can use a box of the same factory ammo to tell what distance you were when you fired.
    Out of all the discussions I have seen, this one makes the most sense to me.
    I think using handloaded ammo for defense may just add an additional layer to the shooting aftermath. It's not like there is a shortage in good defensive ammo.
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    I recommend keeping a few of your carry loads available to LE in case they want to do any forensic stuff with them. You'd think lethal force was lethal force no matter whether your baseball bat was wood or aluminum. Nevertheless, with so many great factory SD rounds available, it makes sense to use reloads with the same impulse for practice. However, if you don't shoot your expensive carry rounds a lot, your tight groups with them may have a different point of impact from your tight groups with the practice ammo. While no worry at close ups, solving an hostage problem across a room requires just the right sight picture. I use up a box of Cor Bon DPX each year to make sure my EDC still likes it.
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    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    The reality is, the answer is maybe. It all depends on the DA handling your case. If they are anti-gun, then they are anti-gun and you buying a better quality SD round will also be an issue.

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