interesting ammo observations from a drive-by

This is a discussion on interesting ammo observations from a drive-by within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; what are the bonded vs non-bonded pros and cons. I understand that bonded holds up better through barriers but have also read bonded doesn't expand ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    what are the bonded vs non-bonded pros and cons. I understand that bonded holds up better through barriers but have also read bonded doesn't expand as well when first impact is a soft target. is that true? if so, is the difference significant or negligible?

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  3. #17
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    lots and lots of LEOs from feds to state, county, and city...used bonded JHP such as speer gold dots, federal tactical, and winchester ranger & pdx (and I'm sure others), they expand just fine or people and so many agencies wouldn't use them

    bonded is more expensive than non so that is a con but I think its worth it, my wife and I have gold dots, winchester bonded ranger/pdx in her G26 and my off duty weapons just like I have at work
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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    I certainly understand why leo's use them. Law enforcement has offensive roles as well as defensive. I'm just curious if the average Joe needs to worry about shooting through car doors, drywall, glass, plywood etc. if they're essentially the same than it doesn't matter but if a non-bonded bullet is going to give significantly more expansion or a significantly faster expansion then maybe those of us who will only likely encounter human targets should load them up. if the difference isn't noticeable though then the benefits of a bonded bullet would certainly be worth any premium you'd have to pay.

  5. #19
    Member Array GlennO87's Avatar
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    stuff this, im buying 12g slugs from now on! lol

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    I'm getting the bomb.

    Glock 23 - CZ 452 ZKM Special
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  7. #21
    Member Array l1a1's Avatar
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    That ought to do it but collateral damage would be rough. Is that at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH or your garage? :)

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    This should be sufficient

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  9. #23
    Member Array Cook74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890 View Post
    I certainly understand why leo's use them. Law enforcement has offensive roles as well as defensive. I'm just curious if the average Joe needs to worry about shooting through car doors, drywall, glass, plywood etc. if they're essentially the same than it doesn't matter but if a non-bonded bullet is going to give significantly more expansion or a significantly faster expansion then maybe those of us who will only likely encounter human targets should load them up. if the difference isn't noticeable though then the benefits of a bonded bullet would certainly be worth any premium you'd have to pay.
    I too would like to know? Thanks...
    Doug;}
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l1a1 View Post
    That ought to do it but collateral damage would be rough. Is that at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH or your garage? :)
    Now: No idea

    Soon: Yes, my garage
    Glock 23 - CZ 452 ZKM Special
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    I'll keep that vid in mind if I ever piss off a steel tank. However, after seeing the results in extensive, more scientific testing, via atk's wound ballistics workshops I've decided to go with the heavyweight HST's. The metal in car doors isn't anywhere close to a steel tank.

  12. #26
    Member Array Archie's Avatar
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    63 Zebra, thanks for the objective report of the damage you found.

    I'm having a bit of difficulty following something: Did the third round - hitting the house - completely miss the van? If so, what was the construction of the house?

    I'm presuming this was a harassment shooting? Three quick shots fired in passing to prove one's manhood and hopefully intimidate the owner of the van? No actual combat or exchange of gunfire, just what might be called pot shots?

    Your report indicates these rounds were not very good at penetration of sheet metal and auto glass. I carry a .40 S&W caliber pistol, but I've never tried it on automobile metal or glass. Then again, I have little need for drive by work in my current state of employment. Should the situation arise (in a defensive posture, of course), I will endeavor to fire through the open window at my antagonist, rather than strafe his automobile.

    Or more likely, simply pull a Bat-turn and call for the authorities.
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    63 Zebra, thanks for the objective report of the damage you found.

    I'm having a bit of difficulty following something: Did the third round - hitting the house - completely miss the van? If so, what was the construction of the house?
    3rd round missed the house, hit wood window sill, splitting it in half (on edge, bottom half) at about a 75 degree angle (house wall perpendicular to street being 0, and driveway being 90)

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    I'm presuming this was a harassment shooting? Three quick shots fired in passing to prove one's manhood and hopefully intimidate the owner of the van? No actual combat or exchange of gunfire, just what might be called pot shots?
    no exchange, was typical drive-by where person in car pops off rounds at target and quickly leaves the area, man owns van, his sons are 15 and 17 and are total turds, hispanic gang members, was gangbanger crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Your report indicates these rounds were not very good at penetration of sheet metal and auto glass. I carry a .40 S&W caliber pistol, but I've never tried it on automobile metal or glass. Then again, I have little need for drive by work in my current state of employment. Should the situation arise (in a defensive posture, of course), I will endeavor to fire through the open window at my antagonist, rather than strafe his automobile.

    Or more likely, simply pull a Bat-turn and call for the authorities.
    I was surprised at the lack of penetration, especially into the cloth seat, was barely cut into and the lead core was in pieces on the carpet behind that seat, definitely says something for bonded ammo in that its designed to hold together to keep its energy more in tact and penetrate better instead of separating and becoming similar to frangible ammo so to speak, and not doing proper damage to the intended target
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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    I think after years of television and video games we are pretty conditioned to believe that bullets are like magic ray beams that will go through anything if your a good guy, yet won't penetrate half an inch of drywall if your a bad guy.

    While I haven't shot many cars, and so cannot make any statements on the penetration of a .40 into a car, I am a tad surprised about the shot that sort of bounced off the house, according at least to where it was found. Durable siding, level 3 house armor .
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890 View Post
    I certainly understand why leo's use them. Law enforcement has offensive roles as well as defensive. I'm just curious if the average Joe needs to worry about shooting through car doors, drywall, glass, plywood etc. if they're essentially the same than it doesn't matter but if a non-bonded bullet is going to give significantly more expansion or a significantly faster expansion then maybe those of us who will only likely encounter human targets should load them up. if the difference isn't noticeable though then the benefits of a bonded bullet would certainly be worth any premium you'd have to pay.
    so I bought some 165gr Gold Dots and fired a shot through the side of a small refrigerator with a couple of 2ltr water bottles in it and a piece if 3/8" plywood in front if it. it went through the wood, one side, through all the water, and split open the other side but didn't exit. opened up also but only half folded back on itself as it ended up sideways. I was pretty impressed that it opened up. stayed in one piece also. nice bullet.

    then I did the same thing with a 165gr HST and never found it. so I put a third bottle of water in there and i put the refrigerator door behind it. it went through all of it. the wood, both sides of the refrigerator and then the door (3 layers of sheet metal, insulation, and plastic), and 3 2ltr bottles of water. the reason it went through everything and bounced off a tree stump was that it hardly opened up at all. it essentially acted like a fmj. lost a little lead also.

    I've done tests with the HST through fabric, meat, bone & ballistic gel and it performed perfectly. I wasn't impressed with it through this kind of media though.


  16. #30
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    yz............very cool test, thanks for sharing
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    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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