interesting ammo observations from a drive-by

This is a discussion on interesting ammo observations from a drive-by within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'll share this since it applies to us all, and is good food for thought for everyone here, based on actual experience/situation..... I had the ...

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  1. #1
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    interesting ammo observations from a drive-by

    I'll share this since it applies to us all, and is good food for thought for everyone here, based on actual experience/situation.....

    I had the unfortunate pleasure of working another drive-by, van parked in driveway
    3 spent casings in the street (I'll wait until the end to reveal caliber )

    first round hit the back window, I found the entire copper jacket (FMJ) sitting on the plastic "ledge" of the back window behind the back window wiper, it was split and deformed but was obviously the entire jacket, lead was in 3 pieces in the floor behind the back seat, the round had cut into the CLOTH backing of the back seat but not punched through, in fact judging by the amount of lead in the floor I don't think any actually embedded in the seat itself

    2nd round was to the upper corner of the front passenger door, the corner near the door pillar adjacent to the sliding side door
    the metal was dented on the upper door pillar and the corner of the door but did not punch through, I searched around and found 2 chunks of lead in the grass/dirt about 6 ft away, and found the jacket in 2 pieces around 3-4ft away

    3 round hit the house in front of where the van was parked, it hit the wood ledge under a window, hit the thin wood siding but checking inside the house didn't find any punch through, I searched around and found the entire round intact under a kids stroller in the grass about 10 ft away from the van and about 2 ft away from the wall (further down from where it impacted the window ledge)

    what we can all take from this:
    -ditbag used cheap range ammo FMJ (from head stamped looks like WWB FMJ) instead of JHP
    -for Self Defense you need to use quality bonded JHP
    -don't expect your wonder round to do the trick with one shot
    -if you are forced to shoot into barrier or glass don't expect it to go through and stop the threat immediately, with one shot, or at all

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    .......for those getting hyper.......it was .40S&W
    TVille and Bark'n like this.
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  3. #2
    Member Array JoeFriday's Avatar
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    Yep, matches what I saw years ago. Criminals don't spend money on SD ammo or high end guns. FMJ seems to be their choice which bodes well for their victims if they do make a hit. The maddest guy I ran across was shot in the side about nipple level with a .25 auto (by the looks of the entry wound, and likely FMJ). He was set-up for a robbery by a passenger he picked up that had him drop her off in an apartment complex where the perp approached him and demanded money. When we showed up, he was ready to lead us to the guy for a little justice, and we had to inform him to calm down and wait for the ambulance because he wasn't going anywhere but to the hospital.

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    Member Array 223to45's Avatar
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    Watch what the .40 JHP does here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7qU09eo1Bk

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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    Watch what the .40 JHP does here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7qU09eo1Bk
    and interesting the 2nd shot is .40 using HST, the 3rd shot is .357 sig using bonded gold dot
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Van shooter should switch to 357sig next time.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Van shooter should switch to 357sig next time.
    The difference in penetration between the .40 and .357 SIG wasn't because of caliber, it was because the HST isn't bonded and the Gold Dot is. The bonding keeps the bullet together and gives better penetration.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    The difference in penetration between the .40 and .357 SIG wasn't because of caliber, it was because the HST isn't bonded and the Gold Dot is. The bonding keeps the bullet together and gives better penetration.
    Nothing to do with higher velocity?
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Van shooter should switch to 357sig next time.
    using any service pistol caliber fmj non-bonded would most likely result in the same effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven
    Nothing to do with higher velocity?
    nope
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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    I think his main point isn't to bash any particular round. But to say that any round can fail and whatever round you choose you should be buying quality bonded HP.

    No need to debate my caliber is better than yours, just carry a quality cartridge and shoot it well.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

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    Member Array 223to45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    The difference in penetration between the .40 and .357 SIG wasn't because of caliber, it was because the HST isn't bonded and the Gold Dot is. The bonding keeps the bullet together and gives better penetration.

    So bonded makes that much difference?? Never realized there was that much, I will have to get a eye on that.

  12. #11
    Member Array Yupp's Avatar
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    When I was younger my uncle had a rifle range set up on his property. We would shoot at paper targets held up by two sticks so the bullet only went threw the paper.

    After shooting jacketed rifle rounds I could often find the empty copper jackets just a few feet past the target. It always amazed me that a single sheet of paper could tear the jacket off of a bullet.

    Granted these were just cheap range bullets and not bonded hunting rounds, but it's still impressive.

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    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    ......for those getting hyper.......it was .40S&W
    have you made a conclusion or confirmed something for yourself about the 40s&w based on this shooting?

    I see caliber choice in this shooting as essentially irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890 View Post
    have you made a conclusion or confirmed something for yourself about the 40s&w based on this shooting?

    I see caliber choice in this shooting as essentially irrelevant.
    nope, guess you missed my post #8 above
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven
    Van shooter should switch to 357sig next time.
    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra
    using any service pistol caliber fmj non-bonded would most likely result in the same effect
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven
    Nothing to do with higher velocity?
    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra
    nope
    the reason I waited to mention caliber was so people would focus on what happened, then let the cat out of the bag, I would have done the same if it was 9, 38, 45 or whatever

    I'll be the last one in this forum to ever go on caliber bashing war, I personally won't carry anything less than 9mm/.38spcl and like .357 mag and sig, .40 s&w, .41 mag, .45acp for self defense in handguns
    Last edited by 64zebra; March 8th, 2012 at 08:53 PM.
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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    Member Array hrufrdr1's Avatar
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    That's it, I'm going to start packing a Stinger missile!

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    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    nope, guess you missed my post #8 above




    the reason I waited to mention caliber was so people would focus on what happened, then let the cat out of the bag, I would have done the same if it was 9, 38, 45 or whatever
    yes I did miss number 8. spot on.

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