should i load 1jhp and 1 round nose bullet and if so why should i
This is a discussion on stacking Mags within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; should i load 1jhp and 1 round nose bullet and if so why should i...
should i load 1jhp and 1 round nose bullet and if so why should i
I prefer bonded JHP's, round nose is for practice.
Some will have good reasons for ball ammo, maybe for extra penetration or to make up for caliber deficiency (think .380), or maybe JHP's don't work in their gun (I would not carry such a gun, unless it was all I could get which is better than nothing).
But for me it's high quality JHP's for self defense.
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Some have said that for 32auto or 380 where penetration is suspect. I use DPX, period.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
The practice of stacking mags started years ago when the quantity and quality of JHP's was nowhere near as good as it is today. This was really a factor with the .45 acp.
The magic number for the HP to expand was 1000 fps. Well they were working up to that and more but they also kept making the HP cavity bigger and bigger which affected the feeding capability of the gun hence that is why 25 years ago you had to send a 1911 off to get "worked on" in order for it to feed HP's well.
The HP of the day was not bonded so with the hotter loads the jacket would sometimes seperate on contact or some versions had such a big cavity and were so soft, to make them expand, that they simply would not penetrate deep enough to do the job.
The jist of stacking mags was that you had a couple of JHP's for the body then ball for barricades or in case the JHP did not do what is was supposed to do you had several rounds of ball ammo that you knew would feed correctly.
Some, including me at one time, not only stacked the primary mag but would load a speciality HP in the chamber, often by hand, like a Speer Flying Ashtray, if it would not relabibly feed from the mag, and then load SP or ball for the rest. Spare mags at that point would be ball ammo or other speciality ammo like KTW armor piercing.
With today's excellent bonded HP's the stacking is not really required anymore. Out of habit sometimes I will still carry spare mags loaded with ball ammo just because. When in LE over the years I carried a variety of HP's as technology got better and what worked for me so slowly I switched over to mostly HP's and a mag full of ball ammo somewhere. When carrying in the states I do on occasion use HP's and when I do they are normally Golden Sabre which I have seen the results of what they can do so I trust them. For the last 6 years over here I am restricted to ball ammo which has not disapointed me yet.
This is what works for me so not trying to convince anyone to change nor condem me for what I do. To each his own.
On a side note for those not familiar with them this is the Speer 200 grain Flying Ashtray.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
I think alternating depends on the agenda....I load mine up JHP, FMJ, JHP....The round "first up" depends on what I'm doing. Up in the hills (bear, Mt. lion) I go with FMJ first up. Around town and at home I go with JHP first.
My thinking is, whatever a JHP my lack (penetration, hydrastatic shock) the FMJ will compensate for. So many variables can be encountered, such as a need for a round(s) to penetrate safety glass, denim, heavy clothing, sheet rock etc. So....if that first shot will likely be you best hit, I want that round to either expand and tear ( JHP around town) or give deep penetration with maximum energy transfer (FMJ up in the hills). All follow-up rounds would alternate, expand and tear, penetrate with energy, expand and tear......
I always completely test feeding in this alternating method to be CERTAIN all cycle efficiently. (Never had any problems with my carries, Beretta, Smith and Wessons).
This holds true for my semi's as well as my revolvers....whatever I'm carring. Extra magazines, speed loaders are alternated in the same fashion....
thank you you sir for being so informative
I heard someone once say they only put the top five as JHP, and the rest is ball, he was saying that by the time 5 shots are fired, they would be dead or behind cover.
I haven't decided if I agree yet or not.
If that is your reasoning I think a better solution might be to have the first half of your magazine loaded with high quality hollow points such as the Federal HST, Winchester Ranger-T and Remington Golden saber standard jacket. Then load the rest of the mag with quality bonded hollow points for better barrier penetration (assuming aggressor is behind cover) such as Speer Gold Dots, Winchester Bonded,(PDX-1=same bullet) Federal Tactical bonded or Remington Golden Saber Bonded. Works well in my Glock. With ball ammo you could put yourself in serious legal jeopardy if you shoot through someone and
strike innocents which is highly likely with ball ammo. And that assumes your pistol is reliable with a stacked magazine.
“Our lives come from God. So does our right to defend them”
There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion.
"With ball ammo you could put yourself in serious legal jeopardy if you shoot through someone and
strike innocents which is highly likely with ball ammo."
Title: "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness"
Urey W. Patrick
Firearms Training Unit
A Quote from the article: " An issue that must be addressed is the fear of over penetration that is widely expressed on the part of
law enforcement. The concern that a bullet would pass through the body of a subject and injure an innocent bystander is clearly exaggerated. Any review of law enforcement shootings will reveal that the great majority of shots fired did not hit any subjects at all. It should be obvious that the relatively few shots that do hit a subject are not somehow more dangerous to bystanders than the shots that miss the subject entirely. Choosing a bullet because of shallow penetration will seriously compromise weapon effectiveness and needlessly endanger the lives of law enforcement using it. No law enforcement officer has lost his life because a bullet over penetrated his adversary and virtually none have been sued for for hitting an innocent bystander through an adversary. On the other hand, tragically large numbers of officers have been killed because their bullets did not penetrate deeply enough."
This is good for thought but form you own thoughts about this.
CZ-75 Primary Carry
Sig P-220 Secondary Carry
WaltherP-1 tertiary carry when i want a break from the others
S&W Model 66 (No Dash)
i carry one round of magsafe frangible and 13 powerballs. not really "stacked" since the magsafe is in the tube.
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Glock 23, mic holster, clipdraw, abdominal carry.