[School me] "sniper" pistol ammunition

This is a discussion on [School me] "sniper" pistol ammunition within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Is it possible to design a pistol bullet (say, the 9mm) such that it would have better range and trajectory than the round you'd use ...

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Thread: [School me] "sniper" pistol ammunition

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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    [School me] "sniper" pistol ammunition

    Is it possible to design a pistol bullet (say, the 9mm) such that it would have better range and trajectory than the round you'd use for normal SD? If you had a carbine, and you intended to use it at short-range, you might choose one type of round, but if you were in a situation where you wanted to make a 'distance' shot, you'd switch magazines. It seems like bullet ballistics could be fine-tuned on this front.
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    I beleive the Ruskies have already done this,the Spetsnaz use it as their close range Sniper Rifle.And I think they even have a .22 long rifle version.

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Guess I'd just learn how how my pistol with it's normal carry load shot at longer range...

    And, of course, "sniping" really wouldn't have much of a role in defensive use.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Sorry, is that an inappropriate question for this forum?
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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    I think you would need a bullet with a better ballistic coeficient than the standard load. Your limitations would be what will fit in a magazine and within the max overall length of the caliber. If it's a pistol caliber like the 9 you mention, I doubt anyone makes such a round. Maybe you could find or make one in solid copper and turn it in a lathe to what you need. In any case it's probably prohibitively expensive. I would think it's just easier to learn where your gun shoots at long range. I've done lots of long range pistol shooting and it's not hard to hit an 8" steel plate at 200 yards if you have the ammo, range, and time to practice.
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    Personally I guess you could work up a load that was 'fine tuned' for longer range carbine work but I don't think you'd get results that would rival any actual rifle rounds. There are a lot of variables at work here, and for distance shots, the construction of the projectile would become a significant factor. Combine that with the velocity that you need to get accurate distance shots and I don't think you'd ever be able to create a round that would impress.

    As Superhouse said, you can shoot some decent distances with regular round though so I guess it would depend on what you considered acceptable. If you are looking for MOA accuracy, I think I'd stick to rifle rounds that are designed with that function in mind.

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    Use 9mm match ammunition that is about as accurate as you can get.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    The FN fiveseveN ( 5.7 x 28 ) kinda bridges that gap. It is a pistol that shoots rifle ammo. I know the rifles such as the M1 carbine and Beretta Storm ( that shoot pistol ) ammo are not the most accurate.

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBuckwheat View Post
    The FN fiveseveN ( 5.7 x 28 ) kinda bridges that gap. It is a pistol that shoots rifle ammo. I know the rifles such as the M1 carbine and Beretta Storm ( that shoot pistol ) ammo are not the most accurate.
    The M1 carbine does not shoot pistol ammo, and .30 carbine is not a pistol round (although there are some pistols chambered in it).

    Like your example fo the 5.7, it is a cartridge that was originally designed to be used in a long gun.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Lyman's 49th for reloads bolds the formulas that have tested most accurate for them and have the potential to be the most accurate for us.

    by distance with a pistol cartrage im thinking you are at 50 yards. but a good handgun with open sights can reach out that far and
    plink a soda can. what more are you looking for?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    The M1 carbine does not shoot pistol ammo, and .30 carbine is not a pistol round (although there are some pistols chambered in it).

    Like your example fo the 5.7, it is a cartridge that was originally designed to be used in a long gun.
    It is "pistol type" ammo! I am not talking about the M1 Garand that shoot 30.06!

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBuckwheat View Post
    It is "pistol type" ammo! I am not talking about the M1 Garand that shoot 30.06!
    I am fully aware of that, as I own an M1 carbine.

    However, like the 5.7, it is a cartridge that was DESIGNED FOR USE IN A LONGARM. Calling it a pistol cartridge is just flat out wrong.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Yeah, the 5.7 certainly inspired my thinking before I asked this question. The 5.7 p90 is a carbine with good range, but the 5.7 underperforms at 'short' ranges in many ways compared to other potential pistol-cartridge carbines. The 5.7 really takes advantage of its small caliber compared to the cartridge length
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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    I suppose the new RIA pistols that are chambered in .22 TCM may fit this bill; they come with both a 9mm barrel and a .22TCM barrel, so one could just quickly swap out barels, and have a very flat shooting cartridge.

    But...If I were to need a "Sniper Pistol", I'll just take my 10" .223 Contender...
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    I am fully aware of that, as I own an M1 carbine.

    However, like the 5.7, it is a cartridge that was DESIGNED FOR USE IN A LONGARM. Calling it a pistol cartridge is just flat out wrong.
    My quote #8 says "it is a pistol that shoots rifle ammo." Where did I ever call it a pistol cartridge? The fiveseveN has the necked down case. It shoots the .223 bullet without a boatail. However if you are careful you could load a boatail bullet if you wanted to.
    The M1 Carbine ammo is not necked down like almost every other type rifle ammo. Looks very similar to pistol ammo, in fact in several loading manuals refer to it as a "pistol type".


    I am very sorry for any misunderstanding.

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