RBCD validation! - Page 2

RBCD validation!

This is a discussion on RBCD validation! within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have trouble believing in a product the manufacturer has to fabricate information about in order to sell it. There is a very good review ...

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Thread: RBCD validation!

  1. #16
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    I have trouble believing in a product the manufacturer has to fabricate information about in order to sell it.

    There is a very good review of the falsified claims of RBCD on http://www.tacticalforums.com/

    Go to the Terminal Effects Forum and you will find it as the second thread and is entitled "LeMas unVail’ed--the Truth at last!"

    While I realize it is expensive, I have to wonder why an ammo supposedly so good is not trusted by so many law enforcement organizations. And you know when folks make claims like it being "extra lethal" that they are just blowing air up your skirt.

    He's former Force Recon marine and he knows everything about exotic ammo. So he calls the guy over and I ask again. He knows all about RBCD and he says they don't carry the stuff. I ask why and he says they don't want the liability
    This sort of statement is similarly bogus. A business that sells guns and ammo or just sells ammo doesn't carry this particular brand because they fear it to be a liability because it is extra lethal...and yet they are willing to sell another products that would fall into the category of normal-lethal?

    My guess is that if they are in fear of there being any sort of liability with the ammo, it is the liability that the ammo isn't consistently loaded within safe specs and hence poses a risk to the shooter and guns from which the ammo is fired.

    The article also has some interesting statements...
    The bullet is so controversial that if Thomas, a former SEAL, had been on active duty, he would have been court-martialed for using it. The ammunition is “nonstandard” and hasn’t passed the military’s approval process.

    “The way I explain what happened to people who weren’t there is … this stuff was like hitting somebody with a miniature explosive round,” he said, even though the ammo does not have an explosive tip. “Nobody believed that this guy died from a butt shot.”
    Yep, the former seal might have been courtmarshalled because the type (not brand) of ammo wasn't legal for use. Then again, he could have been courtmarshalled for carrying a personal firearm as well. The fact that he could have been courtmarshalled isn't because the ammo is somehow super spectacular horrific ammo, but the article sort of implies that is the reason.

    As for nobody believing the guy died from a buttshot, it isn't the location of the entry that is critical, but the trajectory, what the round passes through and damages.

    Roberts' study is interesting in that it notes that the performance of RBCD ammo isn't consistent and isn't quite what is claimed by the manufacturer. In fact, he indicates that the ammo doesn't perform significantly better than standard issue ammo.

    Here is a great quote from the thread on Tactical Forums...

    The 5.56 mm ammo shipped to us by modog consists bullets with an ave weight of 45.0 gr made using standard swaged copper jackets and lead-antimony cores--these molybdenum disulfide coated bullets are completely conventional in every way and use no blended metals, exotic materials, bonding, or other unusual construction. These bullets are identical in every respect, down to the elemental level, as commercially produced .223 varmint rifle bullets. Despite being labeled as “Land Warfare” their exposed lead noses classify them as JSP’s and would render them not legal for combat use under current JAG rules.
    Super lethal blended metal technology? Nope, just jacket soft point lead ammo...nothing special or different. It sort of makes you wonder how that miracle buttshot thing worked!
    Last edited by Double Naught Spy; September 5th, 2006 at 07:39 PM.


  2. #17
    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
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    I would add that I do not think statements made by anonymous gun show vendors (former Force Recon or not) equate to "validation."

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk6 View Post
    I would add that I do not think statements made by anonymous gun show vendors (former Force Recon or not) equate to "validation."
    Amen, Blackhawk....
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk6 View Post
    I would add that I do not think statements made by anonymous gun show vendors (former Force Recon or not) equate to "validation."
    What! Everyone knows the greatest SEALS and sec warriors can be found at gun shows.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  5. #20
    Ex Member Array BigEd63's Avatar
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    To me this reeks of the claims of some one's "cast-zinc-pre-frag-split-nosed-ultra-velocity-loads"

    Now where's an assault wheeel barrow smiley when I need one?

  6. #21
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    A buddy came me a box of the stuff in .223 for my AR a while back so I started a thread on AR15.com about it. I opened the biggest can of worms I could imagine to the tune of a thread of nothing but arguing that went on for over 40 pages. This is supposedly the stuff a US soldier shot an insurgent in the ass with and killed him instantly. I have concluded the stuff is pretty much BS and definately not worth the price. When I picked up my CDP from a local FFL dealer I asked him if he had any Gold Dot or Hydrashock. He said "I have this stuff" and showed me a box of 20 RBCD that was 115gr or something like that and said it was $42.99!!!!!! I said no thanks, took my gun and left.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowv View Post
    A buddy came me a box of the stuff in .223 for my AR a while back so I started a thread on AR15.com about it. I opened the biggest can of worms I could imagine to the tune of a thread of nothing but arguing that went on for over 40 pages. This is supposedly the stuff a US soldier shot an insurgent in the ass with and killed him instantly. I have concluded the stuff is pretty much BS and definately not worth the price. When I picked up my CDP from a local FFL dealer I asked him if he had any Gold Dot or Hydrashock. He said "I have this stuff" and showed me a box of 20 RBCD that was 115gr or something like that and said it was $42.99!!!!!! I said no thanks, took my gun and left.
    ok some how I lost a very long opinion on RBCD after just signing up on the forum! Hopefully it will appear!

    ok brief observation- I shot a 3/8" steel plate, milk jug of water, roast, 1980's era patrol car wind shield, etc. with my other favorite round, and then with RBCD-This particular time .40 with a glock 27

    outcomes- steel plate- other brands (corbon,gold dot, hydroshock)
    these rounds left splatter marks with no diviots.
    RBCD- left what I call a crater! it was a bigger than a nickel and shy of a quarter in size, was about half the thickness of the steel deep, was bright shiny sliver almost looked chromed. and had what looked like a scooped out center that rolled out the edges, almost appeared to have been moulten (*sp) absolutely no comparison to the other rounds!
    just a devastating in the water jug test, the roast test- all rounds definitely tenderized the roast leaving large 3 finger size holes.....but the RBCD- left was looked like beef jerky! It literally blew it to pieces!

    hopefully my more detailed account will appear later- look I wanted to know what worked best to protect my family and myself- I urge you to not take these post to heart,
    TAKE YOUR FAVORITE GUN AND AMMO- BUY ONE BOX OF RBCD- FIND SOME STEEL, GET A ROAST (on sale of course) MILK JUGS OF WATER... GO DO THIS YOURSELF! TAKE A FRIEND!
    I promise this it will stop the chatter!

  8. #23
    New Member Array rrk0818's Avatar
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    addendum

    well my long post is gone- so before I get my hate mail- I have been teaching the Texas CHL class of 17yrs now along with other NRA and tactical shooting / self defense courses. In our classroom we sell many products and RBCD is one of them. YES I SELL AND CARRY RBCD! FULL disclosure! I have replicated the brief test listed above many time and in calibers .380, 9mm, 38, .357 mag, 45 acp and with most all of the well known other brands of self defense ammo. I did not do this to put forth a peer reviewed test using ASTM/DOJ, FBI test methods- it was simply for me . Yes I have shot it in clay and in gellatin too.

    all with consistent results-

    all in all- try it, if you don't agree or like it, no harm no foul- keep carrying what you have now! a prudent person trying to stay abreast of things owes it to themselves to try it. is it expensive, yes. in todays ammo environment not really ....

    what is your life worth- im not saying go shoot hundreds of rounds just enough for you to have confidence in its feeding, power, etc. then follow whatever ammo / mag rotation you adhere too. I have a headache just trying to imagine how much I have shot of it through the years!

  9. #24
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    It's still not as effective as my thermo-nuclear rounds.
    chriscw81, Aceoky and bigmacque like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #25
    New Member Array rrk0818's Avatar
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    You Win!

    I agree "OLD VET" !

    (noticed your location; I have a son in the FL. panhandle, he is a Flight Surgeon in the Navy / NFO training ctr)

  11. #26
    New Member Array rrk0818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    It's still not as effective as my thermo-nuclear rounds.
    ok ok just had my birthday....but seeing the above...I had been in the Navy about 2 yrs when your picture was made! ....guess im old too then....thought if you were still paying for kids -you didnt qualify as "old".

  12. #27
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    Box o truth did a review you can see

  13. #28
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    ...he's so old they had to pick berries to touch up the picture for his avatar...
    Quote Originally Posted by rrk0818 View Post
    ok ok just had my birthday....but seeing the above...I had been in the Navy about 2 yrs when your picture was made! ....guess im old too then....thought if you were still paying for kids -you didnt qualify as "old".
    Aceoky likes this.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    My BS meter pegged the first time I heard about it, and nothing has changed.
    Fisher10, Aceoky and bigmacque like this.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...he's so old they had to pick berries to touch up the picture for his avatar...
    Who you talkin' 'bout, Willis?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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