Question concerning Hollow points for 7.62x39

Question concerning Hollow points for 7.62x39

This is a discussion on Question concerning Hollow points for 7.62x39 within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, I finally bought my AK-47. (Happy Dance) While I was waiting for the gun, I purchased two seperate orders of ammo. One of the ...

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Thread: Question concerning Hollow points for 7.62x39

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Question concerning Hollow points for 7.62x39

    OK, I finally bought my AK-47. (Happy Dance)

    While I was waiting for the gun, I purchased two seperate orders of ammo. One of the online stores had hollowpoints on sale for less than the FMJ. Both lots are inexpensive brands, one is Wolf WAP Military Classic, the other is Tula.

    Looking at the hollowpoints in such a small pointed bullet the hole in the end is so small I am wondering if it would actually capture enough "Material" to increase the internal pressure enough to expand?

    Also the wounding factor of the 7.62 round is supposed to be caused more by bullet tumbling than it is by expansion, at least for military rounds.

    So has anyone checked to see how well 7.62 hollowpoints actually expand?


  2. #2
    Member Array cglandorf's Avatar
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    The 7.62 X 39 is primarily a military round, and hollow point ammunition is prohibited by The Hague Convention, so not too much has been done with other than FMJ in that caliber.
    ”And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms….The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants”
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    Member Array JaySkiBum's Avatar
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    I agree that they aren't too convincing. I have a mix of HP and FMJ 7.62 ammo that I bought on sale back around Christmas, both shoot the same. I haven't tested their expansion capability and honestly it's not a big deal for me because I don't hunt with it. If SHTF, worst case scenario is the bullet acts the same as an FMJ maybe just fragmenting or hardly expanding at all. Either way, not an issue in my mind.

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    sgb
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    The Russian made copper washed steel jacketed HP's don't typically expand.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  5. #5
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    The 7.62X39 is almost the ballistic twin of the 30-30; in my younger days a buddy and I did a lot of backyard ballistic tinkering and tried multiple modifications to military FMJ for our British .303s. We had heard of solders filing an "X" in the nose of FMJ for expansion,so we tried it, shooting into wet newspaper, warm duct seal etc, the "X" did indeed cause some expansion; grinding the nose down to expose lead was better; grinding to expose lead, drilling to the neck of the case, filling with melted wax and seating a steel ball bearing in the nose was SPECTACULAR!!! Literally blowing groundhogs in half! But the .303 is in the same ballistic category as the 30-06.

    In Missouri some guys I know through a whitetail hunting board have used 7.62X39 HP in their SKSes and have reported the bullets worked just fine in killing deer with decent expansion on recovered bullets, not as good as some of our modern hunting bullets but enough to kill deer. They were using US commercial ammo, not the Russian almost military stuff.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Not much if any expansion with the Russki JHPs.

    If you want expansion, go with the SP bullets, or Hornady has their V-Max bullets loaded in steel cases now for a bit less than brass cased.
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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Yeah I realize that Hornady and some of the other manufacturers make hollowpoints, in fact I think it's even available in Zombie Max, but the prices are just way to high compared to the Russian Wolf and Tula. I plan on using the hollowpoints as range ammo since they didn't cost any more that FMJ and if I get the whim I may actually carry the AK one day this deer season. It's not scoped so I would want to use it only when I don't have long shot lanes. Since I normally carry a 30-30 anyways I am not giving up much in ballistics with the AK. I just think it would be neat to be able to say I got a deer with it. Of course the deer population in our hunting area has been just about eliminated so just having a shot at any deer would be a surprise!

    Now I'll sit back and wait for all the post recommending that I buy a new deer rifle in this or that super caliber.

    Edited to add that I already purchased a five round mag for the AK so it'll be legal to carry during deer season.
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    A bit off topic, but I'd like to ask...

    I keep hearing how the 7.62 x 39 is similar to the .30-30. However, I typically use 150 or 170 gr bullets in my .30-30, which is considerably heavier than the typical 123 gr loadings in 7.62 x 39. And the velocities are similar.

    Is there some data to back up the purported similarity between 7.62 x 39 and .30-30, or is this another one of those things that just keeps getting repeated over and over on the internet?
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    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...I keep hearing how the 7.62 x 39 is similar to the .30-30. However, I typically use 150 or 170 gr bullets in my .30-30, which is considerably heavier than the typical 123 gr loadings in 7.62 x 39. And the velocities are similar.

    Is there some data to back up the purported similarity between 7.62 x 39 and .30-30, or is this another one of those things that just keeps getting repeated over and over on the internet?
    A mil-spec 7.63x39 produces about 1450 ft-lb of energy at the muzzle - comparable to a VERY mild .30-30. Most .30-30's are more in the 1800-1900 range, and the hottest (e.g. LeveRevolution 160 gr.) make about 2050 ft-lbs. At 150 yards, a .30-30 LeveRevolution's got more KE than the 7.62x39 has at the muzzle.

    So yes, this is another one of those things that just keeps getting repeated over and over on the internet. 7.62x39's are fun guns, though!

    Regards,
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    sgb
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    One of those things that just keeps getting repeated over and over on the internet.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  11. #11
    Member Array CaptSmith's Avatar
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    Number 1 son took 3 deer with 7.62X39 handloads...130 grn plastic "ballistic tip" loaded just under published max for 7.62X39...all at about 200yrd..with my Mini 30...I load Remington SP to hunt in 7.62X39...I suspect the cheap Wolf/Tula steel bullets...ok for fun, but there is a LOT of improvement with quality components...I suspect the "hollow point" in the Wolf/Tula is the result of the swaging process used with thier bullet blanks...its miniscule...didnt get much of those hot ballistic tips back out of those 3 muleys...just pieces...explosive expansion.. one took 2 steps, the other 2 just died in thier tracks...didnt even jump.....
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  12. #12
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    "OK, I finally bought my AK-47. (Happy Dance)"


    Good for you! The 7.62X39 makes for a efficient and useful cartridge. So, where's the photo? Extra credit given for an additional photo of the happy dance.

    I really like the 7.62X39 cartridge and really think more of it than I do the SKS and AK rifles in which it is frequently found. I'd like to play with one of the neat little CZ bolt guns with the small action chambered for 7.62X39 and suitably scoped. Such a rifle would also be great for cast bullet loads. To be fair though, a brother-in-law has a Century Arms AK folder clone that displays excellent accuracy all out of proportion to the breed's usual performance and holds that accuracy out to 300 yards. It's not even suppose to be a particularly desirable AK variant but it will shoot. Has a pretty decent trigger too.

    I've only ever chronographed a couple of loads through my SKS and those were from some of the cheap ammo imported in the mid-1990s when both SKS rifles and bulk ammunition were cheap. Some was of Chinese manufacture, with a FMJ spitzer bullet weighing 122 grains, and making 2409 fps. The other was a Russian manufactured 123 grain jacketed bullet with a small hollow point in its tip that gave a muzzle velocity of 2471 fps. Both loads were fired from a standard SKS of Russian manufacture.

    That the 7.62X39 is designed to obtain it's terminal ballistic performance from tumbling upon impact is one of those old wives' tales.

    Even the cheap Russian bulk hollow point ammunition pretty effectively grenades the usual run of Texas critters under 40 lbs. in my experience, using the stuff on varmints found out on our old family place. I don't think any shots have been taken beyond about 50 yards though and the rifle used is an SKS. Here in Texas the 7.62X39 sees some use on deer and reports I've heard from others are universally positive even though the style of bullet used hasn't been mentioned.

    As cute and efficient as the 7.62X39 is, the .30-30 does offer a distinct performance advantage over it, using well-designed bullets of more weight and equal or better velocities. I agree that the internet forums have given rise to this unfounded notion that they are equals.

    I've played with .30-30 and the chronograph quite a bit over the years. A typical .30-30 with a 20-inch barrel makes between 2100 fps and 2200 fps with the average factory load and with most well thought out handloads. That's with a 170 grain bullet though rather than the light 125 grain bullet found in the average 7.62x39 cartridge. The .30-30 also can hit 2400 fps with 150 grain bullets and 2650 fps with 125 grain bullets. I show one 125 grain load that clocked 2757 fps over the chronograph but that was with the now-obsolete Reloder 11.

    Still, the 7.62X39 is no slouch and makes for a better choice for deer hunting than many rifles and cartridges lugged into the deer woods. I'll probably get around to taking the SKS deer hunting at least once just to see its performance first hand. CaptSmith is doing it right by cooking up appropriate hunting handloads which has to be the best way to achieve best hunting performance. I have a die set and some 125 grain Sierra spitzer soft points but really haven't experimented much with it.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptSmith View Post
    Number 1 son took 3 deer with 7.62X39 handloads...130 grn plastic "ballistic tip" loaded just under published max for 7.62X39...all at about 200yrd..with my Mini 30...I load Remington SP to hunt in 7.62X39...I suspect the cheap Wolf/Tula steel bullets...ok for fun, but there is a LOT of improvement with quality components...I suspect the "hollow point" in the Wolf/Tula is the result of the swaging process used with thier bullet blanks...its miniscule...didnt get much of those hot ballistic tips back out of those 3 muleys...just pieces...explosive expansion.. one took 2 steps, the other 2 just died in thier tracks...didnt even jump.....
    OK, first off, I confess, when I said the ballistics of the 7.62 is simular to the 30-30 I was indeed just repeating what I heard on the internet. Thanks Kilowat3 for doing the leg work and posting actual data! I would also be curious as to the bullet drop at 100, 200 yards between the two rounds. I suppose since the velocity is simular and according to physics the bullet weight shouldn't change the drop then the drop would also be simular.

    Secondly, to CaptSmith, it sounds like you got really good results with your handload on mule deer. I think mule deer are supposed to be a little tougher than a white tail so dropping them right in their tracks is pretty darn good. The last white tail I got, with a 30-30 I shot through the chest at a slight angle, took out the heart and right lung, bullet fractured one of the ribs on right side attempting to exit. The deer still managed to run about 15 yards. He had actually already been shot through the tenderloin above the backbone 15 minutes earlier. I figure the adrenline he was already pumping kept him going after the heart shot.

    Lastly, to bmcgilvary, I do need to post some pics of the gun it the official AK thread. I will be shooting it next weekend so I can get some action shots then. You don't want to see a video of me doing the happy dance though! Yikes!

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    I recently bought some Sellier & Bellot soft points from J&G but haven't tried the yet. 7.62x39 S&B 123Gr SP. 20rd box Kinda pricey but I figure they can be reloaded the way I want later. 'course I gotta quit buying guns and get a loader one day!
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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    7.62X39 Hollow points are a waste of time.
    7.62X39 will take deer all day long if they are not to far away.
    30-30 is a better hunting round, but weapons that take the 30-30 were not designed for the same use as a AK or SKS.
    If you hit you can kill

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