Who really makes the ammo

This is a discussion on Who really makes the ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; That's interesting, I just ran 500 steel case Wolf thru my pf9 and a 100 Tula thru my P3AT and they both ate it all ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array old guy 2's Avatar
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    That's interesting, I just ran 500 steel case Wolf thru my pf9 and a 100 Tula thru my P3AT and they both ate it all right up

    John
    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I will not disagree with that. Though I would caution that anything with steel casings not be used in semi-automatics or automatics without ensuring that the protective coatings are removed. Russian made Wolf ammunition is one of these that uses steel casings coated with a corrosion preventative that will transfer to the chamber of your pistol barrel and result in extraction failures after firing just a few rounds consecutively in a short time span.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Winchester's USA white box brand is made in Turkey.
    Far from true. Some is made in Israel, some in Europe, some in USA. Turkey? New one on me, but disabuse yourself of the notion that ALL WWB is made in Turkey.
    Smitty
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    As for the Federal I might disagree.
    Federal Premium, CCI, Speer, RCBS, Alliant Powder, Champion, Weaver, Eagle Industries, and Blackhawk! Industries are all presently made by ATK.
    ATK - Security and Sporting Group
    Those are sales offices.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Far from true. Some is made in Israel, some in Europe, some in USA. Turkey? New one on me, but disabuse yourself of the notion that ALL WWB is made in Turkey.
    I've met people at Olin Corp that state otherwise, but you can believe what you want. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Those are sales offices.
    You need to read the information that ATK is putting out. If there were no truth to it with it being on the web as plainly as it is.. then all of those so called sales offices would have justification to bring a law-suit against them. ATK is the manufacturer for Federal Premium, CCI, Speer, RCBS, Alliant Powder, Champion, Weaver, Eagle Industries, and Blackhawk! Industries.

    Besides, I have never seen RCBS produce ammo.. I've only seen them produce reloading equipment. Likewise, I have never seen the Alliant Powder lable in more than the Gun powder and Black powder for cartridge and shell reloading.

    ATK - Security and Sporting Group
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  7. #21
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    When my dogs of war are barking and hungry, they don't care what they eat... as long as the caliber matches what's on their dog tags.
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  8. #22
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy 2 View Post
    That's interesting, I just ran 500 steel case Wolf thru my pf9 and a 100 Tula thru my P3AT and they both ate it all right up

    John
    I can only say..... You got lucky!!
    Possibly the batch of 9mm you were shooting did not have the coating or not as heavy of a coating, your Kel-Tec barrels don't heat up to the point that it will soften/melt the coating to cause a problem or some other reason.
    I have seen it occur in my H&K .40, have watched it happen in other .40's and in a few 10mm's. If I shoot a full 10 round mag in rapid fire and do a quick change.. I can not insert another mag with WOLF or I will get a spent cartridge sticking in the chamber. Meaning I will have to clear and field-strip my gun and drive the glued casing out of the chamber.. Then I have to sit and clean the shellac from the chamber of my weapon before I can resume firing. If I sit with a rag dampened with a bit of alcohol, I can slowly clean off the coating and then not have a problem.. but who wants to pre-clean each and every round they want to put through their firearm. Yet I can go through 50 rounds in rapid fire succession without a single problem whenever I use brass cased ammo.

    My suggestion.. do not use WOLF steel cased ammo in a Semi-Automatic or Automatic Firearm.
    MotorCityGun likes this.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    You need to read the information that ATK is putting out. If there were no truth to it with it being on the web as plainly as it is.. then all of those so called sales offices would have justification to bring a law-suit against them. ATK is the manufacturer for Federal Premium, CCI, Speer, RCBS, Alliant Powder, Champion, Weaver, Eagle Industries, and Blackhawk! Industries.

    Besides, I have never seen RCBS produce ammo.. I've only seen them produce reloading equipment. Likewise, I have never seen the Alliant Powder lable in more than the Gun powder and Black powder for cartridge and shell reloading.

    ATK - Security and Sporting Group
    Do you really want to waste time debating semantics? This thread is about ammunition. Those ATK companies that don't manufacture ammunition are excluded from this conversation. Does that clear things up? Use your head.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Do you really want to waste time debating semantics? This thread is about ammunition. Those ATK companies that don't manufacture ammunition are excluded from this conversation. Does that clear things up? Use your head.
    Maybe you need to re-read the Topic of the Thread! Who really makes the ammo My post was on Topic.. Either accept it or leave!
    ATK makes considerably more than the Items that I stated previously.
    You need to read the information that ATK is putting out. If there were no truth to it with it being on the web as plainly as it is.. then all of those so called sales offices would have justification to bring a law-suit against them. ATK is the manufacturer for Federal Premium, CCI, Speer, RCBS, Alliant Powder, Champion, Weaver, Eagle Industries, and Blackhawk! Industries.

    Besides, I have never seen RCBS produce ammo.. I've only seen them produce reloading equipment. Likewise, I have never seen the Alliant Powder lable in more than the Gun powder and Black powder for cartridge and shell reloading.

    ATK - Security and Sporting Group
    They also make propellant and motors for rockets and missile systems for the Military and other Government Agencies. But had you read anything posted, maybe you might have known that.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I will not disagree with that. Though I would caution that anything with steel casings not be used in semi-automatics or automatics without ensuring that the protective coatings are removed. Russian made Wolf ammunition is one of these that uses steel casings coated with a corrosion preventative that will transfer to the chamber of your pistol barrel and result in extraction failures after firing just a few rounds consecutively in a short time span.
    No, it won't. That's just regurgitating interwebz myth.

    I've fired 500-1k rounds of the stuff in some classes without cleaning, it runs just fine.

    Please, unless you have direct experience, don't pass on rumors.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

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    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I can only say..... You got lucky!!
    Possibly the batch of 9mm you were shooting did not have the coating or not as heavy of a coating, your Kel-Tec barrels don't heat up to the point that it will soften/melt the coating to cause a problem or some other reason.
    I have seen it occur in my H&K .40, have watched it happen in other .40's and in a few 10mm's. If I shoot a full 10 round mag in rapid fire and do a quick change.. I can not insert another mag with WOLF or I will get a spent cartridge sticking in the chamber. Meaning I will have to clear and field-strip my gun and drive the glued casing out of the chamber.. Then I have to sit and clean the shellac from the chamber of my weapon before I can resume firing. If I sit with a rag dampened with a bit of alcohol, I can slowly clean off the coating and then not have a problem.. but who wants to pre-clean each and every round they want to put through their firearm. Yet I can go through 50 rounds in rapid fire succession without a single problem whenever I use brass cased ammo.

    My suggestion.. do not use WOLF steel cased ammo in a Semi-Automatic or Automatic Firearm.

    Exactly what manfacturer makes a steel cased 10mm? Not Wolf, Tula, or any of the Bear brands...


    Methinks you are, as I stated above, just regurgitating what you read on the interweb, posted by the ignorant.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  13. #27
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    No, it won't. That's just regurgitating interwebz myth.

    I've fired 500-1k rounds of the stuff in some classes without cleaning, it runs just fine.

    Please, unless you have direct experience, don't pass on rumors.
    In case you missed my post. I have experienced it and I have seen it happen to others. I have a partial and a full box of .40SW Wolf ammo left of the case load I had purchased because it was so cheap. I will give you what is left if you want it, provided you pay me to ship it to you, since you like it so much. I have been using it for first or first two rounds only (cold barrel-cold chamber) at each visit to the range till I use it up.

    I see now that you did not miss my post as you are saying that Wolf does not make a 10mm Ok.. and even if what I was seeing being shot was Wolf (I had only said was steel case), I could easily be mistaken as to the caliber.. it could have been .45 as I could only tell it was a bigger case then what I was shooting and it was being fed into a handgun that looked smaller than a 45.

    I have read many articles claiming that because it is a steel case, it does not expand the same as a brass case which results in a bit of blow-back and one article I came across they loaded S. African ammo afterward and got the same type of jam that I got.. My malfunctions were after firing a full mag of WOLF and changing mags to fire another full mag of WOLF! The first round on the second Mag would jam.. The residue and cases I was pulling out was/were sticky and not blackened as the site I am providing a link to would claim.. The Box O' Truth - Educational Zone #18 - Shooting Wolf steel-cased Ammo in an AR15

    After sitting cleaning 20 rounds of WOLF ammo with an alcohol dampened cloth and then loading and shooting two mags consecutively.. I had no Problems with an extraction failure at the mag change.. But load 20 un-cleaned WOLF rounds and the first round after the mag change failed.

    Had the problem been only blow-by gasses and a slight cooling process, then why would what came out of my chamber not be blackened and why when I pre-cleaned the ammo did I not get a failure?

    I will go by my own observations and experience to decide what I will use and what I will not use. And if anyone asks.. I will tell them as I have seen/experienced it.
    Last edited by LkWd_Don; April 24th, 2012 at 05:30 PM. Reason: fix typos and finish a statment
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

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