40 cal weight - Page 2

40 cal weight

This is a discussion on 40 cal weight within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not all 135 and 165gr loads are created equal. The Federal PD Hydra Shok comes to mind, it's a medium powered load and pretty mild. ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Not all 135 and 165gr loads are created equal. The Federal PD Hydra Shok comes to mind, it's a medium powered load and pretty mild. The 135 from others (Double Tap, etc) is full powered ammo. Same with some 165s, you should compare.

    When I carried a .40 concealed I used a light, full power 135gr JHP most of the time. When I had a chance to pick ammo for a local LEO agency we ended up with 165gr Gold Saber. I think those are the best all around non-bonded load.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Any weight manufactured by a known and quality company ought to do justice by the owner.
    totally agree.

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    I Personally Carry the 165grain Winchester Ranger T-Series... I have actually test my bullet in a variety of different waterjugs. 14 Inches of penitation and the mushroom of the bullet has keep me carrying this round. I will be posting a series of videos on my youtube channel this summer regarding balistics. I will be doing more than just the typical "shoot into water jugs" testing.
    I will be testing in the following situations:

    shooting JHP through car doors and into balstic media
    shooting JHP through Pylwood and into balstic media
    shooting JHP through Drywall and into balstic media
    shooting JHP through car windows and into balstic media


    If you want your round tested feel free to post message me and we can work something out. I don't have the means to buy all the common hand gun rounds on the market to test them. I have the means to test every round except the .357sig.

    I would love to test some Gold Dots, Hornady Critical Duty/Critical Defense, Federal, Winchester, Etc. Post message me. for more details.
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  4. #19
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    You will most likely get more than one opinion on what ammo to use. The following is one person's opinion for .40 S&W.

    180 grain jacketed hollow points or the 135-155 grain jacketed hollow points by Cor-Bon, Winchester, Federal, CCI or Remington. All are good stoppers, but the lighter weight bullets have the best stopping power records on the streets.

    The real-world shooting database clearly favors the lighter 135-155 gr. JHP loads. I personally would carry the potent Cor-Bon 135 or 150 grain jacketed hollow point or the Winchester Silvertip 155 grain jacketed hollow point (X40SWSTHP). The 135-155 grain JHP kicks less and has higher kinetic energy and stopping power than the 180 gr. JHP loads. The 135 gr. JHP appears to be a real stopper.
    That post is directly from an article on this web sight:

    Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm

    Give credit where it is due.

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array skysoldier29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post

    The real-world shooting database clearly favors the lighter 135-155 gr. JHP loads. I personally would carry the potent Cor-Bon 135 or 150 grain jacketed hollow point or the Winchester Silvertip 155 grain jacketed hollow point (X40SWSTHP). The 135-155 grain JHP kicks less and has higher kinetic energy and stopping power than the 180 gr. JHP loads. The 135 gr. JHP appears to be a real stopper.
    Can you please post this database, I've never seen it? I'm asking because every LE agency that I've ever dealt with uses either 165 or 180 grain bullets.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    Here's a great website for ammo effectiveness (stopping power) - 40 S&W Stopping Power

    You will see that there are many commonalities between loads, but also some important differences (like penetration and diameter). You want something that will penetrate and expand well, but not over-penetrate (possibly due to lack of expansion in HPs). It's a good reference.

    I'm from Wisconsin and for several months a year people wear heavy coats. Lack of bullet expansion was a concern. There are a lot of decent youtube videos that demonstrate how something like a jean jacket or heavy coat can plug the hollow point. I decided to go with Hornady's Critical Defense (165 gr. FTX bullet) as my carry load. The new Critical Duty load could be a better choice if you anticipate shooting through windows or doors. I empty my carry magazines at the range every 6 weeks and haven't had any problems with this cartridge. Otherwise at the range I shoot Federal's American Eagle 180 grain FMJ. It is reasonably priced, reliable, and accurate.

    Hope this is helpful.

    CN

  7. #22
    Ex Member Array ComplexKaos's Avatar
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    I load 180gr HST and Golden Sabers.

  8. #23
    Ex Member Array ComplexKaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    You will most likely get more than one opinion on what ammo to use. The following is one person's opinion for .40 S&W.

    180 grain jacketed hollow points or the 135-155 grain jacketed hollow points by Cor-Bon, Winchester, Federal, CCI or Remington. All are good stoppers, but the lighter weight bullets have the best stopping power records on the streets.

    The real-world shooting database clearly favors the lighter 135-155 gr. JHP loads. I personally would carry the potent Cor-Bon 135 or 150 grain jacketed hollow point or the Winchester Silvertip 155 grain jacketed hollow point (X40SWSTHP). The 135-155 grain JHP kicks less and has higher kinetic energy and stopping power than the 180 gr. JHP loads. The 135 gr. JHP appears to be a real stopper.
    Ummm what agency gives its officers 135gr HP?

    Agencies are giving their officers either of the following three weights.

    155
    165
    180

    I have never heard of any credible testing that validates the 135 as a real stopper.

  9. #24
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  10. #25
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    I want to get back to the OP's original requirements: stop the BG and minimize the chance of over-penetration. I want to preface this by saying I think it is definitely worth consideration, but I agree with prior comments that you can split hairs over this subject and things can still go wrong, i.e.: not stopping the BG, or having over-penetration. And I have no expertise on the subject.

    This month's American Rifleman had a great article titled Handgun Stopping Power detailing extensive studies done by Richard Mann. Using ordnance gelatin he has collected 500 bullets in various calibers, and recorded velocity, penetration, and expansion factor. Looking at the .40 cal test data, the following cartridges had the LEAST penetration of the .40s at 11 inches:

    DoubleTap 135 gr Nosler JHP
    Federal 135 gr Hydra Shok
    Winchester 180 gr PDX1

    The average pen for .40s was 13.7 and greatest was 17.3. Interesting that the least penetration is found with cartridges of both the lowest AND the highest grain bullet! And if you're wondering how it's possible, the PDX1 has the highest expansion factor of 2.08, more than double the original size.

    So IMO don't split hairs, but if it concerns you, definitely look at the data! Looking at .380 data, not counting the 1 +P load tested, the GREAtest pen is the Remington 88 gr JHP. These are inexpensive/standard JHPs, I've shot them before. 88 gr for .380 is on the low end, but these rounds had 18 inches of pen due to an expansion factor of only 1.01, pretty much the original size! Average pen for .380s was 12.6 by comparison, and the 2nd highest pen was 14 with the Remington 102 gr Golden Sabre.

  11. #26
    Ex Member Array ComplexKaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clan.des.tin View Post
    I want to get back to the OP's original requirements: stop the BG and minimize the chance of over-penetration. I want to preface this by saying I think it is definitely worth consideration, but I agree with prior comments that you can split hairs over this subject and things can still go wrong, i.e.: not stopping the BG, or having over-penetration. And I have no expertise on the subject.

    This month's American Rifleman had a great article titled Handgun Stopping Power detailing extensive studies done by Richard Mann. Using ordnance gelatin he has collected 500 bullets in various calibers, and recorded velocity, penetration, and expansion factor. Looking at the .40 cal test data, the following cartridges had the LEAST penetration of the .40s at 11 inches:

    DoubleTap 135 gr Nosler JHP
    Federal 135 gr Hydra Shok
    Winchester 180 gr PDX1

    The average pen for .40s was 13.7 and greatest was 17.3. Interesting that the least penetration is found with cartridges of both the lowest AND the highest grain bullet! And if you're wondering how it's possible, the PDX1 has the highest expansion factor of 2.08, more than double the original size.

    So IMO don't split hairs, but if it concerns you, definitely look at the data! Looking at .380 data, not counting the 1 +P load tested, the GREAtest pen is the Remington 88 gr JHP. These are inexpensive/standard JHPs, I've shot them before. 88 gr for .380 is on the low end, but these rounds had 18 inches of pen due to an expansion factor of only 1.01, pretty much the original size! Average pen for .380s was 12.6 by comparison, and the 2nd highest pen was 14 with the Remington 102 gr Golden Sabre.
    I wonder why they didn't test the HST, Gold Dots, Ranger T's etc.

  12. #27
    Member Array JerryMac's Avatar
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    I personally prefer a heavier bullet, but the bottom line is putting the bullet where it is supposed to be.... i would think a double tap from any size 40 will at the very least get someones attention. To me it is more about shot placement than what i am placinig there.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

    I asked my stock broker the other day, what I should be investing in ....his reply, canned goods n ammo !!!

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZJD1968 View Post
    When I carry .40 I carry this:

    Winchester Supreme Elite® Bonded PDX1

    At handgun round velocities, for SD I want to shoot the heaviest bullet in that given caliber. Thats just me.
    Yep, "heavy for caliber" here too.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKaos View Post
    I wonder why they didn't test the HST, Gold Dots, Ranger T's etc.
    he tested a variety of ammo, I only quoted the 11" pen results. in .40 he tested Gold Dots which performed close to the average on all accounts.

  15. #30
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    Post removed as it was redundant.

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