Two basic stopping power questions

This is a discussion on Two basic stopping power questions within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by smolck I think I can sum it up with this...... Attachment 58592 ^^^^^^^I kinda think your spoofin' so here goes,,^^^^ So I'm ...

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456
Results 76 to 90 of 90
Like Tree39Likes

Thread: Two basic stopping power questions

  1. #76
    VIP Member
    Array oneshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    +42.893612,-082.710236 , Mi.
    Posts
    8,025
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I think I can sum it up with this......

    Attachment 58592


    ^^^^^^^I kinda think your spoofin' so here goes,,^^^^

    So I'm sure you only load the mag for that .45 with 0 rounds then right?
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #77
    JD
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,235

  4. #78
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    This is why I bought my Desert Eagle. Just pulling it out causes heart attacks, and passing cars to randomly explode.

    Michael
    Fisher10 likes this.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St. Charles, Missouri
    Posts
    2,334
    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post

    The shot placement argument makes me laugh. Find someone that remains super calm in a life and death situation & then we can talk about how amazing shot placement is.

    This statement really intrigues me. I can start by naming Jeff Cooper, Jim Cirillo and and others who have been in a host of lethal force encounters and came out on top because they put the bullet where it needed to go.
    Interesting that you named guys that also endorse (or in Mr. Cirillo's case, endorsed <rest his soul>) service caliber. Cirillo speaks extensively about the inadequacy of 38 round nose and dotes on 41 mag (wadcutter specially designed of course) in "Guns, Bullets & Gunfights."

    You also hit on a VITAL point... You pointed out that these guys "have been in a host of lethal force encounters" which further supports my point. These are guys that have thrown themselves into harms way over & over as professionals who engage criminals constantly. I would wager that that accounts for a minuscule portion of the global population. Professional gun fighters and spec ops teams will likely have an edge over the rest of us on combat shot placement.... I will concede that point.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    3,016
    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    ^^^^^^^I kinda think your spoofin' so here goes,,^^^^

    So I'm sure you only load the mag for that .45 with 0 rounds then right?
    I don't even load my 1911. I am confident the BG will die from a heart attack at the mere sight of it :) (totally kidding of course). And my post was just for fun. I think you should shoot whatever you can that hits on target for you. .380, 9mm, .40, ,357, 10mm or .45acp.

    Nobody wins a "caliber war" so why bother arguing. Shoot till the threat stops, whether that be five .45acp rounds or one .454 casull.
    oneshot and BurgerBoy like this.

  7. #81
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,043
    Interesting that you named guys that also endorse (or in Mr. Cirillo's case, endorsed <rest his soul>) service caliber. Cirillo speaks extensively about the inadequacy of 38 round nose and dotes on 41 mag (wadcutter specially designed of course) in "Guns, Bullets & Gunfights."

    Yes many do endorse different calibers with different bullets, but they took what they had and made it work. Cirillo also favored an Ithaca 37 but could not use it in all situations so he relied on his skill to make up for whatever shortcomings in equipment.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St. Charles, Missouri
    Posts
    2,334
    True. Cirillo had ice running in his veins...
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  9. #83
    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    1,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl777 View Post
    And even when shooting so many times like that, wouldn't pain be what causes him to drop? Even ten shots to the chest wouldn't physically stop someone as long as they didn't damage the CNS.
    I think a more accurate description of what you're talking about would be a psychological stop. It's true, that unless you disrupt the central nervous system, a person can still be active for some time. Additionally, adrenaline (or illicit drugs) can dull or eliminate the feeling of pain.

    I think the majority of handgun stops are due to the person being shot suddenly having more pressing concerns than whatever he was doing to make you shoot him.
    Hakkaa päälle!

  10. #84
    New Member Array CoyoteHunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    14
    Arms aren't that thick, but what if the person is wearing heavy winter clothing? In that case the bullet has to pass through as many as 3 layers of clothing plus the arm just to get to the torso, then it needs to penetrate that deeply enough to be effective.

    The best use of penetration figures is for comparison purposes. Other factors being roughly equal, give me a bullet that penetrates 15" over one that penetrates 5", etc.
    Coyote Hunter
    NRA Life, GOA, DAD -- and I VOTE!

  11. #85
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Alamos, Son, Mexico
    Posts
    190
    Ladies & Gentlemen: Most seem to not realize that projectile shape is a major factor, secondary is velocity etc. in pistol velocities. The lowly .38 spec with a full wadcutter at only 8-900 fps is prob one of the better ones. Of course the larger calibres with the same bullet configuration are even superior.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    bmcgilvray and JEAM like this.

  12. #86
    Member Array kmagnuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    481
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl777 View Post
    Still seems like people worry about penetration a lot for just that. How often would a round really have to go through someone's arm or something really? And your arm is only like three inches thick anyway.
    Lol... 3" thick arm? You planning on some Ethiopians invading the burbs soon?

  13. #87
    Member Array Enzo411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    371
    In the days before JHP and the science in developing +P or +P+ loads and heavier grain 9 and 40's, a 45 acp was most definitely a "man stopper". But today I believe the playing field has changed and many of the reviewers of handgun loads that I follow primarily use 9mm JHP of specific manufacturers in their edc pistols.

  14. #88
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Maritimes Canada
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by kmagnuss View Post
    Lol... 3" thick arm? You planning on some Ethiopians invading the burbs soon?
    Well, I suspect it's the bone that matters most: most places in my arm are between 3" and 4" thick. If someone's arm is significantly thicker, I don't think they have significantly more bone anyway.
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
    Wisest. Retirement. Plan. Ever.
    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


  15. #89
    Member Array patrol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    400
    I was going to comment on here on ballistic's etc but most have covered the original question. A handgun is a secondary weapon and really third in the order most would prefer. The Rifle and Shotgun are way more effective at farther distances but the fact is unless you are in open field combat most deadly encounters are going to happen up close thus the handgun comes into play. The other fact is because of access the handgun is used more so we have to decide which one suits each best for their own needs and purpose. As a Police Officer I have both a shotgun a Patrol Rifle and at one time a M14 but the fact is they do me no good unless I start answering calls for service at "sling arms" or "port arms" and the general public would freak out should that day ever come not that I'm against it so we use what we have and what we can get to quickly. For me it's a full size duty handgun with three magazines and a small back up handgun and knife. Stopping power is how effective your shots make the bad guy stop and present no further threat.
    If you can read this thank a teacher. If it is written in English thank a Marine.

  16. #90
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    443
    Most encounters happen within 6-9 feet penetration general is not an issue with modern ammo and remember a .22lr have killed a lot of people as far as 13" of penetration a chest cavity is mostly air with a little skin and bone over it. As far as head shots go unless you are in a fight were no one moves a head shot is more luck than skill COM as many times as you can.

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

best bullet for stopping power forum

,

forget stopping power

,

most lethal 22lr ammo

,

powered by mybb back pain nerve

,

powered by mybb body works

,

powered by mybb defence

,
powered by mybb how a game boy works
,

powered by mybb job loss

,

powered by mybb job loss arguments

,
powered by mybb massive attack
,

powered by mybb middle back pain

,

powered by mybb small ball

,

powered by mybb stop animal abuse because

,
powered by mybb upper left back pain
,
powered by mybb what is animal abuse
Click on a term to search for related topics.